I was looking for opinions on a couple of double rifles:

1) Chapuis Brousse SxS Double Rifle in 470 Nitro Express.

Chapuis Armes Brousse SxS Double Rifle in 470 Nitro Express, ejectors, 600mm barrel. Select Walnut stock. Double triggers. Sculpted receiver with coin finish, floral decor and Cape Buffalo. 3 + 1 flip rear sight and front Night & day sight, English style check piece. 10.4 lbs. Comes with test target, warranty paperwork, Chapuis gun case. New. $12,995 Cdn.

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2) Verney-Carron Demas Azur Safari PH Double Rifle in 470 NE.

Verney-Carron Demas Azur Safari PH Boxlock SxS Double Rifle in 470 Nitro Express: Ejectors, double triggers. Articulated front trigger. Pistol grip stock with palm swell and steel cap. High Grade select Walnut stock with round filet H&H type around check piece. Comes with recoil pad, quick detachable sling swivels. Fine Rose & Scroll engraving. Impressive test target. Barrel Length 610mm, Weight Approx. 10.9 lbs, New. $12,995 Cdn.

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Somethings else; neither of these mention if they have an automatic or manual safety. I'm told that the manual safety is the only way to go on a double... ?

Get a VC but have it made to your specs. No question.

^ Do you know if these guns come with the manual safety, or is that part of getting it built to spec?

I am not sure what they offer as "standard" and I am no engineer, but I would bet it is easier to disable an auto safety to make it manual than make a manual safety automatic. If you are interested in either brand of double, I would be sending a PM to Kebco here on the forum post-haste.

Demonical

Either one. They are both good.

Buy the one that fits you the best, that
comes up the best and that feels the best
in the hands.

No point in having a beauty Double if it doesn't fit you and you can't shoot it instinctively.

I have often thought about buying this
or that DR and then when one has gone
to look at it, it just isn't me for it
didn't fit me, didn't feel good etc.


And as per the poster above, send Ken a PM.

On a Side note, Chapuis will also build to spec as well.

I don't know about all of them but my VC has a manual safety.

Ken is a good guy to talk too about doubles for sure.


.

Demonical:

I have two Chapuis doubles, a 9,3X74R that I bought from Ken and a .375 Flanged that I had built to specs that I got from Dale Nygaard. They are excellent doubles and neither has an auto safety. If you have already found these guns, pick them up and buy the one that feels the best in your hands. If you are thinking of ordering a VC, contact Ken at Kebco. If you want a Chapuis, contact Dale Nygaard at Heirloom Arms. Here is the link:

http://www.heirloomarmes.com/chapuis_pop.htm

You can usually buy a Chapuis much cheaper than a VC and from order to delivery only takes four months. I think the VCs usually take a year. Dale still lists a new 470 Chapuis Brousse for $9500 USD. If you go to the dealers list at the Chapuis web site, Dale is listed as DLN in Howard Lake, MN.

Also take note that your can buy a .375 flanged Chapuis Brousse much cheaper than a 470. I don't know what the new price schedule is like but I think that the last time I talked to Dale you could buy a Chapuis Brousse .375 flanged for $7500 USD. I love my bigger bores but the 9,3 and .375 are just a joy to carry. My Chapuis "Jungle" .375 flanged has five star wood and side plates with full engraving, buffalo on one side, elephants on the other and a lion on the bottom and it was less money then either of the 470s you listed above.

Thanks for the replies guys.

I am in Canada, I kinda have to go with what's available, that doesn't require a complicated import process.

I have a buddy who has a Merkel 140. He was telling me some of the pluses and minuses of the various doubles. He recommended the VC also.

I have a Chapuis in 9.3X74R. I also have a VC in 500NE. I've had a VC in 577NE and a Merkel in 500NE.

I personally think the VC is a grade above the Chapuis. I place the Chapuis and Merkel in the same category.

They are both good quality makes. The Chapuis is more of a factory rifle while the big bore VC's are full up custom built rifles. VC also makes the factory models, but I believe the largest in that guise is the 450/400 over and under. Hold them in your hands and you'll see a difference.

All that said, you really need to hold and shoulder both rifles to make sure they fit you. My 577NE VC did not. The comb was too high. My Chapuis does not. The comb is too high as well, but I have a scope mounted on it which makes it good to go. The Merkel I owned fit 100% as does the new VC, but the new VC was built so specs.

Again, for the same price, I'd go with the VC. But I temper that advice with the statement that it may or may not fit you. You'll need some first hand experience with both rifles to determine that. A poorly fitted double rifle is "No Bueno"! A well fitted double rifle is "Splendid"!!

I was part of a Chapuis group buy with Dale Nygaard several years ago... it was about 7-8 months from deposit to delivery on my 9,3x74r...dale is a great guy to do business with... i'd met mike jimes in Houston a couple months before and he showed me the chapuis double he had...and I was sold on it... my first double!!!...I know that the Chapuis come in from france thru Canada, so that might make a difference...

Demonical:

Don't leave Krieghoff off your list. It is the true "working man's" double. They handle great and they are hell for stout. If they fit you, they make a hell of a gun and you can usually find a good used 470 for around $8,000.

I would think most American double rifle dealers would know about the necessary paperwork to get you a gun to you in Canada.

Dave Bush, my buddy with the Merkel, he's a double rifle nut. He has researched them all and has handled pretty much everyone of the current production doubles as well.

He told me that the Kreighoff has a bit of a different safety and trigger system. I gather the safety is automatically engaged, and it disables the triggers as well. So it has a larger than normal safety because as you take the safety off, you are also simultaneously cocking the triggers. Does that sound about right?

Demonical,

The K-Gun does have a different type of safety. It is actually a Cocker/De-Cocker. In the back position, the rifle is un-cocked. Therefore, it is theoretically 100% safe to cary with both barrels loaded. Pushing it forward, cocks the rifle making it ready to shoot.

The Blaser S-2 does the same thing. However, there is a difference between the two. With the K-Gun, once cocked, it remains cocked. Ie., shoot one round, open it to reload that barrel and it remains cocked when closed and back into action. With the Blaser, every time you open the action, the rifle is de-cocked and must be re-cocked.

IMO, the K-Gun's safety system is a great idea. It takes a bit of getting used to as it takes significantly more pressure to move it to the cocked position rather than just snapping the safety off. But the benefits are great, albiet not traditional. If you're interested in a Kreighoff, I would say it's even more important to to get the rifle in your hands and work the cocking device. Also, the K-Gun has a very straight stock that you'll want to make sure fits you. My personal opinion is that they are very good rifles at what is usually a very good price.

My vote goes to the VC over the Chapuis. I looked at both, along with the Kreighoff and Merkel, at the SCI shows for several years and in the end bought a VC. Each year I would look at the Chapuis again and would again decide it wasn't the right one for me.

I'd recommend taking a drive to Cranbrook to see what Martini has there, unless you have a reason to go to Ontario to see Tradexx. Ralf has a few different things there. If you want to see a Blaser, there are a couple at Calgary Shooting Ctr. Wolverine has some Merkels there, might have a K-gun also, he got me my Krieghoff. But, he is in Manitoba. He is a good guy to deal with though.
Main thing you need to do is make sure it fits you, and that is why I say go see Martini, he knows how to do it, and isn't too far to go.

If you are interested in a 500 I have a VC 500 for sale at about the same price. Gun is like new.

Sam

The VC and Chapuis doubles are both very good double rifles. That being said the one that fits you the best is the one for you IMO!

The difference between the two, again IMO, is the VC has a little more bling, if that impresses you, but as the way they work they are about the same. I don’t believe either in large chamberings comes with an auto safety, but if they do it is easy to disengage the auto feature making it a manual safety.

Now to the Krieghoff double rifle and the Blaser S2! The K-gun if it fits you is a very good rifle. I wouldn’t even consider the Blaser S2.

On the Combi-cocker system! The way this works is: When the rifle is opened and the chambers loaded, closed the cocking lever (so-called SAFETY) is pulled to the rear, this relieves the tumbler springs so there is nothing to drive the tumblers forward. This makes the rifle as safe as a chamber loaded rifle can be. To cock the rifle you push the cocking lever forward and it is then ready to fire. With the K-gun if once cocked the rifle is fired one or both barrels and opened for a reload the rifle automatically re-cocks the rifle so that when it is closed it is ready to fire again. If the rifle is cocked and not fired, all that is necessary to un-cock the rifle is to push the cocking lever slightly forward and release it, this releases the pressure on the springs thus un-cocks the rifle.

The Blaser S2 looks to be the same combi-cocking system, but it is not the same, and IMO is a dangerous system if the rifle is to be used on dangerous game. I can[t think of one other hammerless double rifle that has no facility to re-cock its self, of if chambered for a dangerous game cartridge that is fitted with an automatic safety.

The reason I say this is, the Blaser S2, if opened for any reason not only re-sets a safety but actually de-cocks the rifle, and there is no facility for the rifle to re-cock it’s self, so must be manually re-cocked before it can be fired.

This is not a feature one wants when he fires one or both barrels opens to re-load one or both barrels and forgets to manually re-cock the rifle, with animal still on his feet!

All other normal double rifles automatically re-cocks any barrel that has been fired, when the rifle opened, The normal double rifle is ready to be refire once closed on a re-load, the Blaser S2 is not till it is manually re-cocked. If the Blaser S2 is opened for any reason it must be manually re-cocked before it can be fired.

If a rifle is fitted with a manual safety once the safety is pushed forward to make the rifle ready to fire it remains that way till the shooter manually pulls it back to the “SAFE” position regardless of how many times the rifle has been fired or opened for any reason.

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Krieghoffs are tough to beat for the money.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
If you are interested in a 500 I have a VC 500 for sale at about the same price. Gun is like new.

Sam

Gotta post a picture mate.

Demonical,
Having bought both a VC (450/400) and a Merkel(500) from Tradeex, I would go with the VC. Anthony is also a good guy to deal with and his prices are quite fair.

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:

He told me that the Kreighoff has a bit of a different safety and trigger system. I gather the safety is automatically engaged, and it disables the triggers as well. So it has a larger than normal safety because as you take the safety off, you are also simultaneously cocking the triggers. Does that sound about right?

As others have said, with the safety (cocking device) in the rearward position, the K-gun is uncocked. It is a very safe gun to carry on your shoulder and will give great comfort to your PH when you are walking behind him. Pushing the cocking device forward takes a bit more effort than flicking a manual safety but it is easy to master. Once you cock it, it remains cocked if you have to break the gun to reload. It's very safe and I think there will come a day when all rifles are built this way. It functions exactly the same way as my Blaser R93 bolt rifle. You carry it uncocked and push the cocking device forward to fire. It does not need to be re-cocked between rounds. I used to have a Blaser S2 double rifle and it had the same sort of cocking mechanism but it had to be recocked each time you broke the action. I never found that to be a problem once I got used to it but then again, I have never been charged by a lion either.

The guys are right. Before you jump into this, you should handle a few to see how they fit you. Todd thinks that the VC is a cut about the Chapuis and I agree. However, the Chapuis is a good gun and you can usually buy them better. IMHO, while not fancy, I think the K-gun is a cut above both of them but I confess to very little experience with the VC.

I had a Krieghoff 470 and was happy with it. Can be difficult to cock if you are swinging the gun left or right.

However my VC 500 seems to be of better quality.

Here is my VC 500 NE I have for sale. Price is $13500. It is the double at the top of photo.

Sam:

What model is that, a Standard or a Luxe?

I'd be calling Ralf to see if he still has the VC he shows there, and he has the k-guns there to check out , too.