I know very little about double rifles, as they are a new infatuation that has only recently developed. So, please forgive me if any or all of my inquiries are as ridiculous as I assume they are.

I've found a 450/400 3' set on a Webly and Scott 12 gauge action that a custom gun maker named John Maples & Company built. I believe they work out of Houston, but I'm not entirely sure. I've long wanted a 450/400, and I gave up my 470 Chapuis today (just didn't fit me) meaning I've got a real itch to fill the safe back up. The only reasonably affordable (for a law school student) 450/400 I have come across is the Heym, and I hear they're tricky to get a hold of.

This rifle is really very well balanced, slim, and light weight... all the qualities that I would want in a 450/400. However, I don't know anything about John Maple and Company, nor do I know if converting a 12 gauge Webly and Scott action into a 450/400 is reasonable in practice (is it ever a good idea to use a shotgun action for a double rifle?). Maples & Co. regulated the gun, so I don't know how well it shoots, and I don't know what load it was regulated with. Lastly, I don't have a clue as to whether or not the gun is priced fairly because Maples Co. itself is consigning the rifle with Cabelas (~$10,750).

If anyone could help me out here I would be much obliged. I'm basically just looking for a good working rifle that I can take to Africa and use as an elk, hog, and deer gun. Thanks to all that reply.

quote:

Originally posted by maddenwh: This rifle is really very well balanced, slim, and light weight... all the qualities that I would want in a 450/400. However, I don't know anything about John Maple, nor do I know if converting a 12 gauge Webly and Scott action into a 450/400 is reasonable in practice (is it ever a good idea to use a shotgun action for a double rifle?).

I've always avoided double rifles converted from shotguns, especially so full nitros. I'll put it this way. Webley & Scott was something of a double rifle specialist, and built many for the trade. All were built on dedicated DR actions - PHV-1, A & W C, and W & R C, and Webley built no shotguns on these actions.

quote:

Messr. Maple regulated the gun, so I don't know how well it shoots, and I don't know what load it was regulated with. Lastly, I don't have a clue as to whether or not the gun is priced fairly because Messr. Maple is consigning the rifle himself with Cabelas (~$10,750).

Sleeved barrels? Properly reproved? The value of these conversions are strictly as shooters and aren't going anywhere, so that strikes me as a lot. Assuming top notch work and regulation, I wouldn't be interested at that price.

You can get a decent British .400 for $18-20k. The caliber is in high demand, nice ones are tough to find, and prices will only keep going up. To me, they're easily worth more than twice as much as a converted shotgun.

You can order a new Heym PH .400, built to your dimensions, for around $16k. They're not tricky to get. Heym is building them as fast as they can. Either option makes a great deal more sense to me.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything just burns gunpowder."

Thanks for the input. I misspoke when I suggested that Heyms were tricky to get a hold of. I simply meant that they are in high demand, and acquiring one would take a good bit of time.

The barrels are not sleeved, and I really have no way of telling whether it was properly reproved. All looked good to me. Also, since you mentioned it, I'm not entirely sure that the action was for a 12 gauge shotgun. The fella at cabelas said it was, but he knew nothing about DRs whatsoever. In fact, I don't think he knew much at all.

I really am just looking for a "shooter", but I agree that the price is probably a bit much. Thanks again.

Have you talked to him with these questions? He's local in Texas so drop a dime and find out about this rifle.

quote:

but he knew nothing about DRs whatsoever. In fact, I don't think he knew much at all.

i've found the same thing with "terry" the supposed "gun library pro" at the cabelas' in buda... he was rude, an idiot when it came to women gun buyers...cabelas lost my business because of him...the rest of the salespeople on the floor were helpful... "terry" needs some people skills...

quote:

Originally posted by jimatcat:

quote:

but he knew nothing about DRs whatsoever. In fact, I don't think he knew much at all.

i've found the same thing with "terry" the supposed "gun library pro" at the cabelas' in buda... he was rude, an idiot when it came to women gun buyers...cabelas lost my business because of him...the rest of the salespeople on the floor were helpful... "terry" needs some people skills...

I'm sure that's who I was dealing with. The older guy, Hal, is actually somewhat knowledgeable and can be helpful, but the majority of those guys are pretty incompetent.

Question- I know what the process of sleeving barrels involves, but I want to know why sleeved barrels are perceived negatively. I assume a gun with sleeved barrels is less valuable than one with monobloc barrels, but is their a problem with the performance of sleeved barrels? Thanks.

Terry Neyer doesn't work the floor any more, he is 1 of 2 corporate buyers for the chain. He still offices in the Buda store but does not wait on customers as a matter of course. The older salesman there is named Ron.

You're right. That's who I talked to. Showbart LOVES cabelas

I dislike Cabelas as a whole! I try to spend my money in place that people love guns as much as I love them.

Cabelas is the Sporting Goods "Wal-mart"

I dont shop there either! They dont pay there people. Enough of my rating for one night!

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by maddenwh:
Question- I know what the process of sleeving barrels involves, but I want to know why sleeved barrels are perceived negatively. I assume a gun with sleeved barrels is less valuable than one with monobloc barrels, but is their a problem with the performance of sleeved barrels? Thanks.

Sleeveing 12 ga barrels to 40 cal would make extra bulky and heavy barrels, throw the balance all out of whack, and look like s**t on a rifle. You'd have a 12 ga with rifle sights. They may have bored the barrels out at the chambers and cut them off to make a monoblock, into which new barrels were fitted and re-ribbed.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:

quote:

Originally posted by maddenwh:
Question- I know what the process of sleeving barrels involves, but I want to know why sleeved barrels are perceived negatively. I assume a gun with sleeved barrels is less valuable than one with monobloc barrels, but is their a problem with the performance of sleeved barrels? Thanks.

Sleeveing 12 ga barrels to 40 cal would make extra bulky and heavy barrels, throw the balance all out of whack, and look like s**t on a rifle. You'd have a 12 ga with rifle sights. They may have bored the barrels out at the chambers and cut them off to make a monoblock, into which new barrels were fitted and re-ribbed.

No, I just called Cabelas to ask about that. The barrels are sleeved (must have been a fairly good sleeve job b/c I didn't notice it at the time, although I wasn't looking for it). The rifle really didn't look like S*&t, and it was very light, slim, and balanced between the hands. In fact, the light weight and slim build are what made the rifle attractive to me. They said it was a 12 gauge action, perhaps the barrels weren't 12 gauge barrels...

If he would come down a few grand on it, I think it would make a pretty good little hog shooter. Of course, that's assuming that it's regulated decently. I'm not too worried about that b/c Cabelas usually stands by their guns, and if it won't shoot straight, I'm sure they would take it back. Thanks for all the replies and opinions. We're never short of those on AR.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Sleeveing 12 ga barrels to 40 cal would make extra bulky and heavy barrels, throw the balance all out of whack, and look like s**t on a rifle. You'd have a 12 ga with rifle sights.

I think you're confusing lining with sleeving, Tigger. Fixing a .40 caliber liner in a full length 12 gauge tube (lining) would have the result that you describe, but that isn't what was done.

quote:

They may have bored the barrels out at the chambers and cut them off to make a monoblock, into which new barrels were fitted and re-ribbed.

That's sleeving (converting the old barrels to a mono-bloc and fitting new barrels into the "bloc"), which is apparently what was done with this one.

I can see how a .400 conversion on a 12 gauge action could balance and handle extremely well, if the work is done right. With enough barrel contour, it could end up at a proper weight with excellent weight concentration between the hands. The unfortunate trend these days is to use actions that are too small in the mistaken belief that slimness equals great handling. The small action dictates less contour and more weight in the barrels (otherwise the gun will end up underweight) and results in a slim gun with too much weight in the ends that's clubby as hell.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Is this shotgun actioned double rifle

on the www.cabelas.com website? If
so, I missed it!

quote:

Originally posted by BigFiveJack:
Is this shotgun actioned double rifle

on the www.cabelas.com website? If so
I missed it.

Can you be more Specific with the web site address.

Cabelas has a lot of guns !

quote:

By 500N, (to BFJ): "Can you be more Specific with the web site address."

Hi Nigel,
That is what I am asking of maddenwh, who is the original poster.

[I guess it is warming up by now in eastern Australia, hmmm?]

Jack

Yes, had a hot November and it's going to get even hotter. Been over 30 deg all weekend.

Sorry fellas, I've been out of action. It's not on the cabelas website because it is on consignment from John Maples and Co. I asked the same question. It really might have been pretty neat to play/hunt with, but I came to the conclusion that $10,999 was a bit extravagant for what was offered. I tried to talk them down a lot, but they said they would have to contact the seller and that he probably wouldn't want any less than $10,000. I said I'd consider $8,000 figuring they wouldn't go for it, and so it was.

Also, the only reference I could find to this guy was actually on the cabelas website. He/they made a set of 450/400 barrels for the Hollis and sons 470/ 450/400 two barrel set advertised on the website. Other than that, I couldn't find anything on the web, and haven't talked to anyone that knows who he is... Another reason I shied away from the deal.