Just out of interest does anybody practice with a side by side shotgun with double triggers? This was recommended by a well known expert. Seems by the time you buy one , and they are not particularly cheap, unless you already have one, might as well have fun shooting the real thing even if the ammo is expensive. I doubt the fit and swing would be the same either.

FWIW I can highly recommend it. It's easy to find the second trigger on the rifle range. Finding it on the sporting clay course, or even better, in the dove field or on the covey rise, really let's you know that you've mastered it.

Find a CZ (they took over Huglu), or Cabela's carries a SxS from Dickenson Arms with double triggers. Either is relatively cheap, although I prefer the Dickenson Arms SxS with ejectors.

Over a year before my first safari with a double rifle, I hunted birds exclusively with a CZ SxS with double triggers. Since that time, I've reliably found the second trigger during an elephant hunt, a charging buff, and back-up on a lion. When you instinctively find the second trigger under these circumstances, you have it down. But to be clear, I didn't have it down when I started! I didn't have it down until I could reliably find the second trigger on a covey rise.

It's worth the money to find a cheap SxS shotgun and invest in the time, be it on a clay course or in the field. You need to find situations where your focus is entirely on the target, not the gun. When you find the second trigger automatically under these conditions, you have it down.

PM me if you're interested in a CZ. I'll part with it, but not the Dickenson ....

I bought a Husqvarna 12 gauge shotgun that had two triggers and shot it about 200 times as practice for a quick right/left. I think it helped.

I think there is a lot of sense in this thinking, for the same reason I only shoot/hunt with SXS 12G shotguns.

I have always used SXS s and me thinks that has helped me master a heavy double rifle..

Come to think of it...who would hunt birds with an O/U or worse an auto....

I bought an old beat up Webley & Scott that had its chokes opened out by a local "smith". It is off face and the hooks have been badly worked on with dot punches first and then some rough welding work.

So i just bought it and loaded up some lead balls into some no 4s with the shot removed.

I was getting pretty good groups at 25 meters but shooting a bit to the right with the shotgun bead and rib sighting plane!

Yes, indeed! I use a SxS with double triggers hunting birds behind my dog 6 months out of the year. No hesitation at all moving from the front to rear trigger.

My Krieghoff "Teck" O/U double rifle with double triggers in .458 Winchester Magnum has an extra set of barrels in 20 ga. 3" Magnum, which I shot quite a bit of skeet with before my first African hunt. I also shot .410 shells in the .458 barrels, which is pretty hard on the cases, but an interesting pastime.

No problems with shifting from stock to stock, since I was using the same one for both sets of barrels. The weight of the rifle barrels is far greater. of course, and that factor changes the way the rifle swings.

The stock on that rifle was made in accordance with measurements made with the help of a try-gun by Holland & Holland at their shooting school outside of London. Consequently, it fits me perfectly.

quote:

Originally posted by LR3:
Just out of interest does anybody practice with a side by side shotgun with double triggers? This was recommended by a well known expert.

This would be fine if you practice the same way you shoot the double rifle, to get to instinctively find the second trigger.

The problem I see with this is, and shotgun normally has a different choke in each barrel, and so the shotgun is used with the back trigger ( open choke) first when walking up birds, so as the birds rise the first shot is close, and the second is the front trigger (tight choke) for distance a the bird gets farther away.

Transversely, if hunting birds from a stationary position, with birds coming in to your position. In that case birds coming in the drill is to fire the front trigger (tight trigger) first so if you miss, the bird will slip nearer before he can shy away to the back trigger(open choke) is fired.

So, what I’m saying here is dove hunting or any bird hunting will not build the trigger memory used in a double rifle. However if you use the shotgun to do some “stump shooting” and use the trigger the way you will normally use them on your double rifle then it is good practice. IOW, if you will be using the front trigger first on the rifle than you should always do the same on the shotgun.

It is your choice witch trigger you use first on the double rifle, but most use the front trigger first. But which ever you chose practice with shotgun the same way. That is the only way the trigger selection will come naturally when you get in a tight spot, and if you choose the front trigger first that practice will teach you how to avoid strumming and causing a double discharge.

The “BEST” practice is with the double rifle with full loads and not on a shooting range, or a bench. Get out in the woods and pick rocks, and stumps for snap shots in a one, two fashion, then when the first shot doesn’t stop a buffalo, or elephant you will find the proper trigger for the second shot instead of pulling the same trigger again, or strumming the back trigger leaving you rifle empty.

……………Long way around the barn to say all practice should cause you to do things instinctively when you don’t have time the think it over!
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Mac,

Far be it for me to argue with you about guns, especially double rifles, but I've got 4 sxs shotguns that all have the right barrel (front trigger) with the more open choke. When I'm going hunting with a double rifle I use only sxs doubles for sporting clay shooting for months prior to the trip. And I use front trigger, right barrel for all shots regardless of what the target throws might suggest would give better percentages. If I were one of those who choose rear trigger first for a double rifle, I'd do the same thing with my sporting clay shooting.

I firmly believe the many hundreds of shots one can take with sporting clays or skeet greatly improve preparation for using a double rifle, especially in what could be a tense situation...

Good hunting,

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by LR3:
Just out of interest does anybody practice with a side by side shotgun with double triggers? This was recommended by a well known expert.

The problem I see with this is, and shotgun normally has a different choke in each barrel, and so the shotgun is used with the back trigger ( open choke) first when walking up birds, so as the birds rise the first shot is close, and the second is the front trigger (tight choke) for distance a the bird gets farther away. In that case birds coming in the drill is to fire the front trigger (tight trigger) first so if you miss, the bird will slip nearer before he can shy away to the back trigger(open choke) is fired.

Mac, I totally don't get it. What SxS shotguns are you shooting? All of my doubles are front trigger=right barrel=more open choke. Rear trigger=left barrel=tighter choke. No exceptions unless they've been dicked with! That being said, there are occasions each season when a bird rises further than expected. At that time I take one shot with the rear trigger=left barrel=tighter choke.

For driven birds, it has been my experience the right barrel is the tighter choke and the left the more open choke as the birds come closer. When I see vintage double shotguns in this configuration then I assume it is for driven birds.
Cal

A double barrelled shotgun with two triggers was my shotgun of choice when I was 16yrs old and my father bought me it.It cost 400 dollars back then and I remember that time and the hunting scene back then.No one would buy a shotgun with two triggers.They were just not in style.If you had a half decent job you would get one with a single trigger.I learned to hunt and shoot with a double trigger shotgun and now that I own a double rifle with two triggers it all comes naturally-I dont have to think about what I am doing.

Cal, that makes sense...for driven birds, they're getting closer for the 2nd shot, as opposed to the usual close shot from the right barrel, far shot from the left. I thought Mac was off his meds again :-)

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
For driven birds, it has been my experience the right barrel is the tighter choke and the left the more open choke as the birds come closer. When I see vintage double shotguns in this configuration then I assume it is for driven birds.
Cal

OK, I guess I get the point? That being said, what (small) percentage of guns in this configuration have you seen?

I'll go one further.

Use your sxs twin trigger shotgun and wear the clothes - including binoculars - and shoot some skeet/field and game "gun down".

This will teach you gun mount, swinging body with targetd, how to handle double triggers and whether your safari clothing is compatible with gun mounting and whether your binoculars/cartridges on gunside shoulder inhibit your gun mount.

I meant "wear the clothes you intend to hunt in".

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
For driven birds, it has been my experience the right barrel is the tighter choke and the left the more open choke as the birds come closer. When I see vintage double shotguns in this configuration then I assume it is for driven birds.
Cal

OK, I guess I get the point? That being said, what (small) percentage of guns in this configuration have you seen?

This is best answered by one with vast experience in vintage shotguns from the UK. I only own three shotguns:
One has both barrels choked full
One has both barrels choked cylinder.
One has right barrel imp.modified and the left imp cylinder--for driven birds.
Others I have had in the past were choked for walk up shooting with the right barrel more open.
Cheers,
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Emory:
Mac,

Far be it for me to argue with you about guns, especially double rifles, but I've got 4 sxs shotguns that all have the right barrel (front trigger) with the more open choke. When I'm going hunting with a double rifle I use only sxs doubles for sporting clay shooting for months prior to the trip. And I use front trigger, right barrel for all shots regardless of what the target throws might suggest would give better percentages. If I were one of those who choose rear trigger first for a double rifle, I'd do the same thing with my sporting clay shooting.

I firmly believe the many hundreds of shots one can take with sporting clays or skeet greatly improve preparation for using a double rifle, especially in what could be a tense situation...

Good hunting,

Emory, I totally agree with you! That is what should be done to practice with a double scattergun to form an instinctive use of the triggers on a double rifle, regardless of which trigger you chose to use on the double rifle.

It matters not which choke is in which barrel, when the idea is to learn proper trigger selection on a double rifle when the crap hits the fan.

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quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by LR3:
Just out of interest does anybody practice with a side by side shotgun with double triggers? This was recommended by a well known expert.

The problem I see with this is, and shotgun normally has a different choke in each barrel, and so the shotgun is used with the back trigger ( open choke) first when walking up birds, so as the birds rise the first shot is close, and the second is the front trigger (tight choke) for distance a the bird gets farther away. In that case birds coming in the drill is to fire the front trigger (tight trigger) first so if you miss, the bird will slip nearer before he can shy away to the back trigger(open choke) is fired.

Mac, I totally don't get it. What SxS shotguns are you shooting? All of my doubles are front trigger=right barrel=more open choke. Rear trigger=left barrel=tighter choke. No exceptions unless they've been dicked with! That being said, there are occasions each season when a bird rises further than expected. At that time I take one shot with the rear trigger=left barrel=tighter choke.

You are correct, my post was a brain fart, I just got it twisted around, My bad!

However that has nothing to do with proper practice with a double shotgun to train yourself proper instinctive trigger selection on a double rifle.

Mac, no worries. The older I get, the more brain farts I also have. Stay well!

Thanks for all the input. Played with a 20G sxs shotgun to day. Doesn't have the rear V of course. Then went back to swinging and snap cap practicing with my .577 working safety and then both triggers. Next some more range time for fun.

quote:

Originally posted by DoubleDon:
Mac, no worries. The older I get, the more brain farts I also have. Stay well!

Well DD, I'm crowding hell out of 80 years of age so I suppose we can expect many more of them as the years pass!
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I also shoot Western action with my sxs double trigger, non ejector, greener cross bolt, 12 guage.

You are usually required to pickup the gun, load it from ammo on your belt, shoot two shots, shuck your empties (no ejectors remember) and repeat at least once.

This teaches you gun mount, use of double triggers, finding your ammo on your belt (preferably without looking and "frisking"), loading two cartridges at one time, target acquisition, shucking empties, speed without haste.

If you stood in front of two steel "gongs" and practiced a two shot, reload, two shot, reload, two shot drill then you'd soon acquaint yourself with skills that would be very handy to your double rifle shooting..........at a far cheaper cost.

Remember to wear your safari clothes (including binoculars) in order simulate "field conditions" and "field trial" what hangs up and gets in your way.

Of course there would be no better practice than to do it with your double rifle.

Perhaps you could use your double rifle for this drill and utilise a row of clay targets resting on the target mound/backdrop and shoot against a mate to instill some haste/pressure/competition.

Instigating a double rifle competition at your local club, with the event involving accuracy, speed, movement and reloading, may also be beneficial. Kinda like a double rifle IPSC !!!???

That reminds me that I once read a post by Guyana that for the Zimbabwe PH test if I recall correctly there was a sequence of needing first to shoot a target something like 25 m away and then the second at 10 m with both timing of the shots and accuracy to pass. Something to try.

Gentlemen, Here in Texas we have friendly competition called a HOOT- N- SHOOT! This is a competition with stopping rifles both doubles and bolt rifles.

The drill is with an eight inch target with a two inch 10 ring and graduated rings out to the edge of the target. The targets are set up at 25 yards, and the shooters are individually timed for four shots starting with doubles being loaded and the bolt rifle with one in the chamber, and three down in the magazine. The individual is timed starting when he fires the first shot, and stopped when he fires the fourth shot.

The eight inch targets are then scored with a possible score of 40 if all four shots hit the ten ring. Any shot that misses the target are not counted for score even though that shot would still be in the kill zone of a cape buffalo. The thought is the see how fast the shooter can fire his rifle and reload it for four shots for the double, and working the bolt on a bolt rifle and compare the score, and time between the different types of rifles.

My score was 36 of a possible 40 points, and the time was four seconds flat, and that took third place. I had forgotten that this particular double was fitted with an auto safety, and I tried to fire shot number three after a reload with the safety in the on position. If I had not forgotten the safety I could possibly shaved another second of my time. With a buffalo or lion in full charge that extra second could have cost me my life. I took some real abuse here on AR for not having disengaged the auto feature of that safety, my having recommended others to do that for years. My only excuse is procrastination even though I had had this rifle for some years.

My score of 36 points and four seconds flat was beat by two other shooters, and both were shooting doubles. Most of the bolt rifles were way longer in time than most of the doubles. That was a big surprise to a lot of bolt rifle shooters.

These little friendly competitions are fine practice for very quick use of your rifle when speed and accuracy may save your, or someone else’s life.

……………..Long winded response but may be of interest to someone!

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Mac,

Sounds great.

With enough reloading,shooting, gun mounting, jeering from the gallery and competitive spirit involved there's plenty of room for mayhem.

In IPSC we used to say that we had a "game plan" until the buzzer went off and it usually cleared your head of all conscious thought.

Western action is another that is great for this as there's three types of guns involved (lever action rifle, shotgun, single action pistols) and four guns involved and different shooting scenarios, often including movement. So there's lots of room for brain farts.

The people who did the best handled adversity under pressure the best.It taught you never to stop/give in unless there was a safety issue or a stopage that might harm the gun or the shooter.

TBB We also have a lot of Western Action shoots here in Texas. I've never participated but it looks like a lot of fun and you are right it is good training to do things instinctively.

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