i have been known to use a 416 for rabbits so i would go with 450/400 ohhh shit I'v already done that!!!!!! can't wait till bailey bradshaw gets it built i know where there are some hogs and rabbits that need killing

I think I've seen pictures of you with a double hunting "Wabbits".

(Insert picture of Elmer Fudd)

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I have a Heym double rifle in 30/30.

It is the model 26B, an O/U.

It is light, short, and very accurate. I Use the Heym QD scope mount, and it goes back to zero 100%. I have taken several deer and wild pigs with it and 3 coyotes, on at 166 yards.

I even killed an alagator snapping turtle, that has a hold of the head of one of my ducks in the pond. The wife had a hold of the ducks feet and was in a tug of war with the turtle.
One shot of the Heym 30/30 ended the tug of war...

This 30/30 double has become one of my most favorite hunting guns.

Well, dang man - finish the story! Did the duck survive?!? Did the wife?

OK, the rest of the story...

At the shot the snapper let go of the duck.

The wife took the duck up on the "shore" and then said "You Son of a B*^$# you shot the F*@#%^%$ ducks bill off!!!

I said, calmly, "No I did not, let me look".

Well, the duck did have a nasty gash/tear in his bill, but it was caused by the snapping turtle, not by me and the Heym 30/30...

I "gently" reminded her, that I was used to shooting "around good people" to hit the bad people, which included ducks, the wench holding the duck and an aligator snapping turtle.

So, I went and got a rake, and had the wife use it to search and eventually rake the turtle out of the pond, while I stood by with the Heym...

The round had hit the turtle in the neck, traveled into its body and blown a bit hole out the back of the shell...

The Duck survived the attack. As did the wife...

Gently reminded her i bet the people in the next county could hear that reminder

Wait til y'all hear her story about catfish with a 44Mag.

Excellent! I knew there was more there to enjoy!

Thank you, Tony.

Hey Guys,

I really appreciate all the feedback and input in this topic. Your knowledge and experience is extremely helpful as I knew it would be.

I have owned a 9.3 in the past, and like many of my past weapons, I wished I had never gotten rid of it.

I hope I'm able to get another one some day.

I like what many of you had to say about the various calibers such as the 30 Blaser and the 303 British, as well as the 30-40 Krag. Any of those would make a nice rifle caliber for what I would use them for.

However, I've decided to go with the 30-30 Winchester. Many of you have given some great reasons behind my decision and I truly do appreciate you confidence in my decision.

Now that I've decided the caliber, I am thinking on the weight of the bullet. I'm thinking of going with the 170, but I was wondering what your thoughts were on that.

Also I was wondering what you thought would happen if I had the gun sighted in with 170"s and then switched to a little lighter bullet like Hornady's 160 grain Flextip or if I reloaded a 165 grain spire point or boat tail at about the same velocity (2200 fps) as the factory 170?

Would the lighter bullets shoot higher, lower, cross, or hit about the same?

I'm just thinking out loud here and would really appreciate your insight on these thoughts.

Thanks again for your time!

After reading all the responses and being facinated with the 9.3x74, a 30-30 double sounds really interesting if I were going to have one built. What is anyone's opinion of the 30-40 Krag in a double?

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/DblRifle.html

He does the 30-40 along with most U.S. traditional calibers that are considered for the double rifle treatment. Except one, the 348 Win. And that's the one I'd want IF I wanted another shotgun conversion for American game.

They're located in LA as was the builder of my Parker, although that was someone else.

I like the idea of the 30-40, except it's too similar to the '06 and I just personally prefer a larger bullet to get more the African express rifle feel.

Which takes me full circle right back to an African caliber to start with.

Already having the 450/.400, I guess in the unlikely event I wanted another, my first question would be, which one of the 450s best lends itself to be handloaded for American deer and hogs?

Another way of putting it is, I'd go with a caliber that, if it came to it, can put the smackdown on a bull elephant.

Thanks for the link, looks like they make good rifles.

Why not the 7.62x54R? It beats the 30-30, 30-40, and 303 British. Ammo, brass, bullets, and load data are not hard to get. It's a rimmed cartridge with 30-06 performance. I think it would make a great North American double rifle.

After I made my response about the 30-40, I thought abour the 7.62x54R it would be a really nice choice. One that I did not mention and I have it in a Model 94 Winchester is 38-55.

That would or should work up into a nice double.

If you want the bigger, take a 9,3x74R. Or if smaller. take 7,62x53R.

If I was serious about the 38-55, I would go the whole hog and get the up-dated version in 375 Win.

The European calibers are interesting, but - why use them for American deer and hogs? You might as well use a 375 H&H. And from what I read on the African board here, something beginning with a "4" is usually recommended for dangerous game. That's where I'd take this. Unless we're talking multiple double rifles.

To me, the .375 Winchester does not offer anything that impressive over the 38-55 plus there is the nostalgia of the 38-55. With 255 grain bullets, the Winchester round only offers 200 to 250 fps more velocity than the 38-55.

If I want or need more than what the 38-55 can do, I can simply break out my .375 H&H. As I stated in my previous response I already have a lever action 38-55. The 38-55 has a well earned reputatiopn for being an accurate round with bullets of the proper diameter. With only 200 to 250 fps more velocity, I will not be able to discern any appreciable difference in the killing abilty of one over the other and the critter being shot definitely won't be able to testify to the effectiveness of one pover the other, especially if I place my shot properly the first time.

Hey Gusy,

I was wondering what your thoughts are on lighter bullets.....

Please see my earlier post.

quote:

However, I've decided to go with the 30-30 Winchester. Many of you have given some great reasons behind my decision and I truly do appreciate you confidence in my decision.

Now that I've decided the caliber, I am thinking on the weight of the bullet. I'm thinking of going with the 170, but I was wondering what your thoughts were on that.

Also I was wondering what you thought would happen if I had the gun sighted in with 170"s and then switched to a little lighter bullet like Hornady's 160 grain Flextip or if I reloaded a 165 grain spire point or boat tail at about the same velocity (2200 fps) as the factory 170?

Would the lighter bullets shoot higher, lower, cross, or hit about the same?

Thanks,

JT

The two most popular bullets in 30-30 are 150 and 170. I've shot both of them out of my Parker DB and at 50 yds the point of impact differences are not enough to matter. I'll go with the 170 simply because I like them on the heavier side. Can't say what accuracy is like at 100 yds. That's on the list of things to try.

4570NUT - Have you considered the 160 gr FTX LEVERevolution factory load for regulation of your new 30-30 double?

Yes Sir,

And I am seriously considering that load. I was just wondering what would happen if I had it regulated with 170's and then shot a lighter, faster load in it like the 160 gr. FTX or even a 150?

Thanks for your help.

I just learned about the 75% rule for double rifles thanks to Mr. Cal Pappas. As a rule of thumb you start with the regulating load. You can use a bullet with 75% of the regulating bullet weight while retaining the original powder charge or you can keep the same weight bullet and reduce the powder charge by 75%. I haven't tried this so maybe others can chime in as to it's efficacy. It sounds like a good place to start. Hopefully sometime in the near future I'll be able to put it to teh test.

Eric

Now that I've thought it over, I've changed my mind.

I'd pick one that probably no one else would want. (Assuming I am having a shotgun converted to get it.)

Donor brass, though, is common, and so is the bullet diameter. Plus it is is purely American, a slightly bigger bore than a .30 caliber, and is a low pressure round so it won't be rough on the action. Plus, I already have form dies for it to feed my lever gun.

The cartridge? The good old .33 Winchester. Brass is easily made from .45-70 in one pass through the form die, then FL resize and trim.

Easily puts a 200 or 210 gr. .338 bullet out there at 2,200 fps or so, has almost no recognizable recoil, and brass lasts just about forever plus 3 days.

That .33 Winchester was replaced by the .348 Winchester. And it might be easier to re-load than the .33 and it has '06 type energy.

It's a round I've always liked.

But I've come to believe there's only one "proper" gun for it, the Winchester Model 71. And, they are real easy to sell and bring very good prices (if U.S. made originals).

In an expensive shotgun conversion double, there is no doubt about it. Some of the calibers we've talked about here, you'd take a haircut on selling and would never get your money back. Or, it'd just sit and sit on someone's store shelf for years. I've seen guns do that. Someone put way too much in them for what they really are.

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:
That .33 Winchester was replaced by the .348 Winchester. And it might be easier to re-load than the .33 and it has '06 type energy.

It would only be easier to reload, if one had or could more easily find bullets and brass for it where and when they wanted. Today it is much easier to find .45-70 brass and it is only 1 step more work to form than just using factory .33 Winchester brass would be if it was still made.

I like the .348 Winchester too, but looking at the current and long-term prospects for ammo and components, I would definitely choose the .33 Win over the .348 Win. And having used the .33 and the .30-06 both for many, many years, the only place I would prefer the '06 to the .33 Win is for those shots where I would rather have a long-range bolt-action rifle anyway.


But I've come to believe there's only one "proper" gun for it, the Winchester Model 71. And, they are real easy to sell and bring very good prices (if U.S. made originals).

I agree totally with that sentiment , which is another reason I did not pick the .348 Win as what I would select for MY double rifle shotgun conversion.

In an expensive shotgun conversion double, there is no doubt about it. Some of the calibers we've talked about here, you'd take a haircut on selling and would never get your money back. Or, it'd just sit and sit on someone's store shelf for years. I've seen guns do that.


Me too. But we are not talking about an investment here. If we were, I would only spend MY double-rifle money on existing, used, old name, English or highest grade European DRs in excellent condition.

Someone put way too much in them for what they really are.

Opinions being personal things, you are welcome to yours.

I just don't think it is really appropos in this instance. Converting a shotgun to a DR is usually done for the pleasure the gun can give the owner in the here and now, not to build something which would appeal to some unknown prospective buyer in the future.

On a purely practical level, for other than one's own personal use, my feeling is that ALL such conversions are a waste of good dollars.

But done for personal use, they should be built for the user, to his desires and tastes in chamberings, barrel length, stock design, wood choice, finish, and so on, and may be an excellent bargain for that owner. All other shooters can go build their own if they don't like what the original owner chooses.

The question was what each of us would like for ourself, not how we would critique the choices of others.

Not trying to give you a bad time. You build your .348 (or buy a Model 71 Win). If I convert a shotgun to a DR, I'll build my .33 Winchester or whatever else turns my crank at highest RPM right then. Fair enough?

Winchester is makeing 348 Win. lever rifles again, and Hornandy is makeing ammo, brass and bullets. I would guess Winchester will have ammo again too.

DM

quote:

Originally posted by DM:
Winchester is makeing 348 Win. lever rifles again, and Hornandy is makeing ammo, brass and bullets. I would guess Winchester will have ammo again too.

DM

That's nice. I'll believe the winchester ammo when I see it...and it may still be made by Hornady and sold by "Winchester" under their label. Winchester is a name owned by Olin and "leased" to whoever pays enough money to get to use it; and that could be anyone.

At any rate, even if Winchester starts making ammo again, two sources of .348 doesn't hold a candle to the number of companies making .45-70 brass and .33 bullets.

Anyone care to bet which (.45-70 or .348) lasts the longest in regular production the next 30 years?

When i bought my first 9.3x74R, EVERYONE told me i was NUT'S! I was told there were no bullets available, no brass and it was never comeing back!

Well, look at it today...

I don't care what you buy... But, if "i" wanted a .348 Win. there'd be one in my safe, and i wouldn't be worried about ammo or brass/bullets!

DM

Which is as it should be. If you refer to my earlier post I said, "You build your .348 (or buy a Model 71 Win). If I convert a shotgun to a DR, I'll build my .33 Winchester or whatever else turns my crank at highest RPM right then. Fair enough?"

And if you think the .348 is going to come back to the degree the 9.3x74R "sorta" has, then after you get it built and have a little spare money on hand again, I've got a bridge in the New York City area I'll give you a REAL buy on .

Mine will still be a .33 Winchester if I ever decide I need a shotgun converted to a DR.

quote:

Originally posted by DM:
When i bought my first 9.3x74R, EVERYONE told me i was NUT'S! I was told there were no bullets available, no brass and it was never comeing back!

Well, look at it today...

I don't care what you buy... But, if "i" wanted a .348 Win. there'd be one in my safe, and i wouldn't be worried about ammo or brass/bullets!

DM

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Which is as it should be. If you refer to my earlier post I said, "You build your .348 (or buy a Model 71 Win). If I convert a shotgun to a DR, I'll build my .33 Winchester or whatever else turns my crank at highest RPM right then. Fair enough?"

And if you think the .348 is going to come back to the degree the 9.3x74R "sorta" has, then after you get it built and have a little spare money on hand again, I've got a bridge in the New York City area I'll give you a REAL buy on .

Gentlemen it makes no difference what chambering you can think of, if you are willing to do some work and scrounging you can always find a way to shoot an obsolete cartridge firearm. That is not the jest of this query.

I think, since this shooter leans to cartridges like the old 45-70, the 30-30 would be a better choice for him. It’s a better idea to have a small double rifle for hunting in the deer fields of North America, to have it chambered for a round that is available in any country store in one of the “DOG PATCH” communities of the Ozarks.

Like the old 30-06, the 30-30 has been and always will be available anyplace as long as hunting rifles are allowed in North America. However there are many very good cartridges with a long history in the USA, like the 348 Win, or the 30-40 K that are suitable for double rifle use, and though these can be hand-loaded quite easily you will not find them in Wall Mart, or the country store. This would also make a fine first double rifle to give to one of your kids as his first double rifle. Come to think of it, I think I’ll build another 30-30 double myself !

……………………………………………………………………………………………….....................................

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Gentlemen it makes no difference what chambering you can think of, if you are willing to do some work and scrounging you can always find a way to shoot an obsolete cartridge firearm. That is not the jest of this query.

I think, since this shooter leans to cartridges like the old 45-70, the 30-30 would be a better choice for him. It’s a better idea to have a small double rifle for hunting in the deer fields of North America, to have it chambered for a round that is available in any country store in one of the “DOG PATCH” communities of the Ozarks.

Like the old 30-06, the 30-30 has been and always will be available anyplace as long as hunting rifles are allowed in North America. However there are many very good cartridges with a long history in the USA, like the 348 Win, or the 30-40 K that are suitable for double rifle use, and though these can be hand-loaded quite easily you will not find them in Wall Mart, or the country store. This would also make a fine first double rifle to give to one of your kids as his first double rifle. Come to think of it, I think I’ll build another 30-30 double myself !

I couldn't care less what he ends up with, i was just trying to be "helpful" with some updated info in my first reply, and all i got was a snotty reply for my trouble.

As far as i'm concerned, he can go F himself! lol

DM

30-30 is cute but I think 405 Winchester...hands down. A good killer for all North American game!!
Cheers