Lets see what everyone has to say about intercepting sears. In my opinion, in a properly built rifle they are not totally necessary. One of the things that I hear all the time is that you cannot double a rifle with intercepters. This is bull!! Baring any mechanical failures, the primary reason for doubling a rifle is hitting the second trigger under recoil. This is shooter error. I will agree that in the event of a mechanical failure or the rifle gets dropped then they can prevent a discharge. So what do you think?

In May this year I visited in person, for four days with Trevor Proctor of

www.ttproctor.com at his home and his shoppe just outside Manchester

England. He is a one man double and bolt action rifle maker. He acquires

his basic forged action bodies from the same British firm that supplies

H&H etc. The man builds the rifles as if it were one or two hundred years

ago. Picture him among P. Webley and C. Osborne et. al. I can't tell you

how long it takes to make a single SCREW. Any way, some of the fifty thousand

questions that I assailed him with during our time together were on the

topic of INTERCEPTORS. [I ask very pointed questions some times because for

a living I supervise investigators.] I asked if it's correct to say, that if a

double has interceptors, and just a micro second after the hunter slides the

safety to FIRE he SLIPS, and just as quickly the cocked rifle hits the ground

hard, would INTERCEPTORS prevent an unwanted discharge, hence providing

an added measure of safety? Trevor replied that though nothing can be guar-

anteed, that is the exact purpose of INTERCEPTORS. He told me one of

the "negatives" of the Westley Richards drop lock patent is that they can not
not be fitted with interceptors.

Jack,

The rifle doesn't need the safety in "fire" to benefit from the intercepting sears. The safety only blocks the triggers, not the primary sear or hammer.

With a dropped or whacked rifle, it is possible to have a sear let go. The intercepting sear can only be moved from position to catch the hammer by a pull of the trigger and so will prevent an AD where a rifle without them will fire.

The lighter your triggers, the typically greater chance for AD without second sears since lighter trigger pulls are accomplished by both polishing the trigger, sear interface and reducing contact area. Since the intercepting sears have no significant "wieght bearing" contact with anything, they do not interfere with clean, crisp, light trigger pulls.

Again, as previously mentioned, intercepting sears will only prevent a rifle doubling from a mechanical failure and not from shooter error. But any rifle that trips a sear from mechanical failure needs repair, whether it has intercepting sears or not.

The primary cause of doubling points straight to the shooter and improper technique with regard to keeping the trigger finger and hand under control through recoil.

Are they a requirement for a double rifle? No they are not, and plenty of double rifles have been hunting for a century without them (and shotguns too), but they add safety - period, and peace of mind too, as well a allowing a lighter, crisper trigger pull without compromising safety.

As I mentioned in the other post, I prefer both intercepting sears and a bolted safety. With a bolted safety, with bolt blocking the safety,, the safety cannot be moved to "fire" without first moving the bolt, which is a lever in front of the safety. With intercepting sears to prevent AD from a slipped sear, and a safety bolted to ensure that the safety is locked to prevent being inadvertantly moved to enable the triggers, the rifle is entirely safe. It is very quick to move the bolt if you are familiar with it. And, of course, you remove the bolt when close anyway.

JPK

JPK,

I agree with every thing you said. Intercepors are not relevant to when the

shooter accidently puts presure on the second trigger because he did not control

his trigger finger during recoil. But I say again that I asked Trevor very pre-

cisly what I indicated above, and his answer was as I reported. A side effect

of a rifle being fitted with interceptors, [without any question to we "in this"] is

the ability to have lighter, to a degree, trigger pulls. No doubt of that. Can a

dropped rifle SANS interceptors, with safety ON accidently fire? YES, certainly.

If the safety is in the FIRE position the discharge is even more likely. If the rifle

HAS interceptors, that rifle SHOULD NOT FIRE, UNLESS A TRIGGER IS PULLED!!!
Are we in agreement? Am I off track some where?

Jack,

I think yes we are in agreement, and I only intended the top portion of my post to be directed to your question of Trevor.

One question though, the non intercepting sear rifle is only more apt to accidently fire with the safety off because the trigger may be depressed in the fall, right?

The rest was a general discussion for those who may not have researched or might not be as familiar with intercepting sears as you have and are.

BTW, I have found my triggers, worked on by JJ, to be about perfect at 3 1/2lbs and 3 3/4lbs or so. Don't recall the exact pulls as measured with weights. It seems to me that the slightly heavier rear trigger feels the same as the front trigger because of the placement. Have you had the opportunity to measure your trigger pulls? If so what are the pulls on yours? Before JJ worked on them, the trigger pulls on my Thys were annoyingly heavy, with the rear trigger feeling lighter. The lighter triggers are a great relief. I typically have the triggers of my "good" shotguns set to about 3 1/2lbs for the front and a bit heavier for the rear, fyi.

JPK

quote:

by BigFiveJack

JPK,

I agree with every thing you said. Intercepors are not relevant to when the

shooter accidently puts presure on the second trigger because he did not control

his trigger finger during recoil. But I say again that I asked Trevor very pre-

cisly what I indicated above, and his answer was as I reported. A side effect

of a rifle being fitted with interceptors, [without any question to we "in this"] is

the ability to have lighter, to a degree, trigger pulls. No doubt of that. Can a

dropped rifle SANS interceptors, with safety ON accidently fire? YES, certainly.

If the safety is in the FIRE position the discharge is even more likely. If the rifle

HAS interceptors, that rifle SHOULD NOT FIRE, UNLESS A TRIGGER IS PULLED!!!
Are we in agreement? Am I off track some where?

Cordially,
Jack

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Jack,

I think yes we are in agreement, and I only intended the top portion of my post to be directed to your question of Trevor.

One question though, the non intercepting sear rifle is only more apt to accidently fire with the safety off because the trigger may be depressed in the fall, right?

The rest was a general discussion for those who may not have researched or might not be as familiar with intercepting sears as you have and are.

BTW, I have found my triggers, worked on by JJ, to be about perfect at 3 1/2lbs and 3 3/4lbs or so. Don't recall the exact pulls as measured with weights. It seems to me that the slightly heavier rear trigger feels the same as the front trigger because of the placement. Have you had the opportunity to measure your trigger pulls? If so what are the pulls on yours? Before JJ worked on them, the trigger pulls on my Thys were annoyingly heavy, with the rear trigger feeling lighter. The lighter triggers are a great relief. I typically have the triggers of my "good" shotguns set to about 3 1/2lbs for the front and a bit heavier for the rear, fyi.

JPK

I agree with both you, and also with JPK on the value of the barred safety, a very desirable feature on any double!

The one scenario where the triggers need not be depressed for an AD to occur! If the engagement is too light, and/or the sear spring too weak, and the safety in the "FIRE" position, the rifle is dropped on it's belly, one or both sears my be disengaged without the triggers being depressed, because of the inertia caused be the sudden stop at a hard surface. With intercepting sears, the AD would be avoided, because the sear could engage the second sear stop, in the nanosecond after the inertia had passed, without the trigger being involved at all!!

As I said on the other thread, I can live without them, but if having a rifle built, interceptors would be one of the features I would request, along with the barred safety!

Thanks for that scenario Mac, there's

nothing like a good word smith.

JPK, What Mac has said, I just did not
have the info to say. I am glad he did!

quote:

Originally posted by JPK: Have you had the oppor-

tunity to measure your trigger pulls? If so what are the

pulls on yours? Before JJ worked on them, the trigger

pulls on my Thys were annoyingly heavy, with the rear

trigger feeling lighter. The lighter triggers are a great

relief. I typically have the triggers of my "good" shot-

guns set to about 3 1/2lbs for the front and a bit heavier

for the rear, fyi.

JPK

I am sending the rifle to JJ this week, trigger pulls being one of the batch of

details I want addressed. The rifle I chose, UNFORTUNATELY does NOT have

I/S. I would have loved to have them, but the search for a D/R was getting

to be too darn time consuming. I am hoping for a little "lightening" of the

trigger pulls if JJP says he can do so with the safety margin where it should

be.

quote:

If the engagement is too light, and/or the sear spring too weak, and the safety in the "FIRE" position, the rifle is dropped on it's belly, one or both sears my be disengaged without the triggers being depressed, because of the inertia caused be the sudden stop at a hard surface.

I got that part. But since DR safeties only block the triggers, that scenario of the safety searless DR firing on beling dropped is equally likely with the safety in "safe." And it can occur with other "landing" positions than belly down.

JPK

Jack,

Half of a good trigger pull is a clean and crisp break. You will get at least that and I am confident that you'll find the triggers noteably better.

JPK

JPK,
Great! Thanks for the encouraging words.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:


I got that part. But since DR safeties only block the triggers, that scenario of the safety searless DR firing on beling dropped is equally likely with the safety in "safe." And it can occur with other "landing" positions than belly down.

JPK

Absolutely true!