I used Hornady's 400gr RN (the one they discontinued) on my first two deer. Both took one thru the shoulder and neither reacted as I expected. The first at 85yds stumbled and then stood with head down (real sick). She walked off behind some brush and went about 50yds into the thick stuff. She was still alive with head up when I followed her up. Took another shot to finish. The first shot was just barely above the scapula.

The second at a little over 100yds didn't react at all. I thought I had missed, so took a second shot. The deer ran at the shot and I wasn't sure I hit with either attempt. Deer went about 75yds -turned out the first shot was thru the shoulder and the second was thru the lungs.

When Hornady discontinued this bullet I was bummed, since I figured it would be a nice deer/pig bullet, but now I'm not so sure. Is anyone using a softer bullet that would open on deer a little quicker? Suggestions?

Tim, give Tony's 75% rule (same powder charge as the 400 gr, but using 300 grain Hornady .411 flat points. I'm using these and the 300 grain spire points for my plinker and smaller game loads. I've also used 300 grain cast flat points with 5744 powder and really smacked a few hogs.


A month ago I shot a 60 lb hog with the Hornady 400 grain DGX. It fell over and barely quivered. Don't really know if it opened up much but it sure did a job on both shoulders.

Based on my experience in Africa, the 400 Woodleigh is a soft bullet (too soft in my book),but an expensive bullet for does and such. Bob

Antlers,

In my Krieghoff 450/400X3 I've been range testing the Hornady 300 grainer, both flat point and spire point with AA5744. Velocities range from 2000 - 2300 f/s and pretty good accuracy. Same with the 340 cast FPGC at 22 BHN.

bobc,

On Tony's 75% rule, are fillers required? I'd
like to try the loads but don't do fillers.

Tim,
The Hawks may work better if you can get them to shoot. I think you will find that any large bore bullet will punch through small game like you described. They will work almost like a solid unless you hit some solid bone. At least you make a big hole! Had this happen on plains game in Africa when I shot them with the big bores. Always had to do some tracking and some times had to finish the job with a Knife.

If you are using RL 15 use a filler just as you would with 400 grainers. I am about to give 4831 a try. I think in some of Tony's earlier posts on the 75% rule he uses 4831 in the 450-400 3 1/4. If no filler using 4831 with 400 grains, use the same load with 300 grains.

Bigfats, how much 5744 are you using? Bob

I'm using H4831 and will try the 300gr Hawks and Hornadys with Tony's rule. Bob, have you killed deer with the Hornady 300gr?

Roscoe, I was afraid that might be the case, but I'll try the 300s and report back - it'll be next year before another deer though.

Missed you both in Dallas.

quote:

Originally posted by bobc:
If you are using RL 15 use a filler just as you would with 400 grainers. I am about to give 4831 a try. I think in some of Tony's earlier posts on the 75% rule he uses 4831 in the 450-400 3 1/4. If no filler using 4831 with 400 grains, use the same load with 300 grains.

Bigfats, how much 5744 are you using? Bob

Bobc,

With the Hornady 300 grain SP or FP I use 50.0 to 52.0 grains AA5744 with mag primer.

Which 4831 are you using, IMR or Hodgdons and charge?

Just one hog with the 300 gr flat point. Flattened him pronto, reasonable expansion from what I could judge. Bob

Tim,
Have you tried any cast slugs out of that beast yet? For deer they'd be good.

I got some Hawk 480 grainers for the 450 NE with a 0.025" jacket. Both the jackets and cores are very soft. Check this list out.

From http://www.hawkbullets.com/Pricelist.htm

.408 diameter

Round Tips
300 grains x .025 RT...........$40.50
300 grains x .035 RT...........$43.50
350 grains x .025 RT...........$42.50
350 grains x .035 RT...........$46.50
400 grains x .025 RT...........$44.50
400 grains x .035 RT...........$50.50
400 grains x .050 RT...........$65.00

Flat Points
235 grains x .025 FP..........$37.50
270 grains x .025 FP..........$38.50
300 grains x .025 FP..........$39.50
HP's available by special order

.410 diameter

Round Tips
300 grains x .025 RT...........$40.50
300 grains x .035 RT...........$43.50
325 grains x .050 RT...........$59.00
350 grains x .025 RT...........$42.50
350 grains x .035 RT...........$46.50
400 grains x .025 RT...........$44.50
400 grains x .035 RT...........$50.50
400 grains x .050 RT...........$65.00

Flat Points
235 grains x .025 FP..........$37.50
270 grains x .025 FP..........$38.50
300 grains x .025 FP..........$39.50
HP's available by special order

.411 diameter

Round Tips
300 grains x .025 RT...........$40.50
300 grains x .035 RT...........$43.50
325 grains x .050 RT...........$59.00
350 grains x .025 RT...........$42.50
350 grains x .035 RT...........$46.50
400 grains x .025 RT...........$44.50
400 grains x .035 RT...........$50.50
400 grains x .050 RT...........$65.00

Flat Points
235 grains x .025 FP..........$37.50
270 grains x .025 FP..........$38.50
300 grains x .025 FP..........$39.50
HP's available by special order

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
Tim,
Have you tried any cast slugs out of that beast yet? For deer they'd be good.

Mike, I don't do any casting, so I haven't tried cast slugs.

Buy some store bought ones. Most gun shows have several vendors.. There's several here and alot more online.

Ok...so what diameter cast bullet would I use?

quote:

Originally posted by Antlers:
Ok...so what diameter cast bullet would I use?

Look here under rifle bullets.http://www.montanabulletworks.com/wst_page5.html
I use their 325 grain sized to .412" (actually runs about 340 or so).

If you've slugged your tubes and find .410 then add .002 and see how they work.. Possibly .001 but .002 is better most of the time.

Tim,
Those 025 jacketed Hawks ought to be a "Pig Bomb" as Jeffesso states. For light skinned whitetailed deer they ought whack 'em good.

Next year I will be using NF cup points on deer in my 9.3x74. The Norma were to soft and did to much damage. I have to work up a load. The cup points should act like a hard cast flat nose with out all the hassle of casting or cleaning out lead.

JD

bobc,
the hornady's that you recommend are sized .411,that is .001 over the size recommended,is this o.k ? or do you re size them down to .410 ?

Tim,
I would much rather stick to copper than cast,especially if there are choices like the 300 gr Hornady,cast will work out of your gun but you would have to clean the barrels well each time that you would switch from cast to copper,this time in Brady the only pig that I shot was with a 400gr flat point speer out of my 470,range 120 yrds or so,dropped it where it stood,out of the factory my gun is regulated with a 500 gr bullet,I use the 400's for plinking and shooting hogs,I bet it would work on plainsgame as well.

My gun mikes at .411 according to JJ. I don't resize. My recollection from talking to Mark is that Hornady sized their 450-400 bullets to .410 so they could be shot safely in .408 to .411 barrels. I don't think .001 would make any difference in a cup and core bullet like the Hornady's. Bob