This is my first time playing with a double rifle other than shooting friend's rifles so I could use some advice on what to do with this thing.

I took the Baikal 45.70 out last week and just shot it to make noise and see what the gun felt like. This week I put together a load of 48 grains of IMR4064 and a 350 grain Hornady soft.
I was sitting straight up with my elbows on the bench.

Here are the first three shots from the right barrel at 50 yards. It shows promise.


Here is what the left barrel does:


So I moved the rear sight to center the right barrel and this is what the combination looks like. I thought that I might have pulled the shot from the left barrel so I shot it again.

It looks like the left barrel is hitting 3" high and crossing 2" to the right of the right barrel



It looks like I can get the right barrel to shoot point of aim and group well but getting the left barrel to shoot close to it may be a problem.

My sight picture is burying the front bead in the bottom of the Vee of the rear sight and a 6 O'clock hold on the 2" orange bullseye.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

If memory serves me correctly the left barrel is fixed but the right one can be moved. Might have it backwards but either way adjusting the jack screw should be able to take care of it. Moving the screw one way makes the spread increase, the other way the barrels come together.

I would try this before changing the velocity of the ammo.

The jackscrew adjusts the horizontal spread but doesn't do anything for the vertical. You can get a certain amount of vertical adjustment (definitely enough for the spread on your targets) by inserting small pieces of thin shim material between the end of the adjustable barrel and the collar at the muzzle end. It might take a bit of experimentation to find exactly the correct thickness to achieve good regulation.

I like the Baikal doubles. They're so...agricultural. I've had three: a couple of .30-06's and a .45-70. Not fancy, but great value for money and a lot of fun to play with.

OK, I'm confused. Is the right barrel or left barrel moved with the adjusting (jack) screw?

The jackscrew sits between the two barrels and I assumed that since the front trigger fires the right hand barrel that that one would be fixed. I assumed that the right barrel (front trigger) would coincide with the sights and the second (left) barrel (rear trigger) would be adjusted with the jackscrew.

JWN,

How do you remove the collar from the muzzle? It looks like it's pinned and the ends of the pins are staked.

Would a shim go on top of the barrel to make it shoot lower?

My notes are buried somewhere but I am pretty certain the right barrel is the one that moves.

All it takes is a couple of shots to confirm. Move the screw in one direction and watch the group get wider or closer. Then be smarter than I was and write it down somewhere easy to find

Can't help on changing the elevation. Put an Ultradot on mine mainly because the comb was to high to use the stock iron sights which sucked anyhow. Tried a 1x4 scope but it totally destroyed the ability to regulate the rifle.

I don't recall which barrel is the adjustable one, but looking at the muzzles will reveal that one is fixed in the collar and the other (i.e. the adjustable one) floats. The jackscrew bears against the middle of the adjustable barrel and applies pressure to it, or releases pressure, depending on which way it is turned. Take off the sheet of metal that covers the gap between the barrels and it is immediately apparent which way is which. When the screw is turned to increase the pressure on the barrel, it forces the middle of the barrel outward, which causes the end of the barrel to point more toward the other barrel and move the POI in that direction. In other words, pushing the middle of the barrel to the right will move the POI to the left. It's easier to see than to describe.

For elevation changes, I never even attempted to remove that goofy collar. The fit of the muzzle of the adjusable barrel in the collar is quite loose. I found the easiest way to shim was with spark gap feeler gauges (automotive), which allowed me to try various thicknesses until I got what I wanted. The correct thickness was usually quite easy to force into the gap. A shim on the top moves the POI down, and vice versa. When you achieve the desired correction I suppose you could make an appropriate piece out of brass shim stock...I just snapped off the end of the gauge in the collar and called it good. Agricultural, remember?

Bear in mind that every vertical correction can also have some effect on the horizontal regulation as well. I had my best results alternating back and forth several times between horizontal (easy) and vertical (PITA) changes. Make sure that you have chosen a load that is accurate in both barrels and that suits the hunting/shooting that you intend to do...this isn't something that you are going to want to do again.

When working with my .45-70 specimen, I wanted to use iron sights, so adjusted it that way. My .30-06's were set up with scopes. Either way worked, and removing or adding a scope after regulation required starting almost from scratch. The Baikals are almost like real double rifles in this regard.

One last thing: if you are interested in an aperture sight for your .45-70 you will find that the NECG aperture sight designed for Ruger rifles fits the Baikal rib quite nicely. The "recoil lug" on the sight mates, imperfectly but acceptably, with the single groove on the rib.

Hope this helps. Enjoy that fine specimen of the Russian gunmakers' art!

John

Thanks John and SW. You guys are correct, the right left barrel has the pins and is staked in place.

I need to settle on one bullet and build my loads with the sights adjusted to the left barrel and start "jacking" around with the right barrel.

Thanks again!

Just in case you don't already have it:

Barrel Regulation

Owner's Manual

Frank, if I may make a suggestion...I think it would be more productive to decide on a load that both barrels like, and then twiddle with the adjustment to get the barrels as close as possible to one another without regard for exactly where on the target the groups are located. Once they are as close together as you can get them, then adjust the sights to match that composite group. Regulating that floating barrel is enough of a pain when you are only chasing the other barrel...trying to also close in on a preselected point defined on the paper by your sights will drive you bonkers.

John

Thanks Joe! I had the owner's manual but didn't have the directions for the regulating adjustment. I noticed that the front sight post looked adjustable but hadn't had the courage to twist on it.

This should make dicking with this thing much easier.



John,

I agree, it's funny that the very first load that I tried was accurate in each barrel just not together.

I've got some 300 grain bullets on order that will be here Tuesday so I'll wait until they're here and start working with them only.

I just received my gun 4 weeks ago and no regulation instructions were provided. Thanks for the printout. Damn Rooskies

IIRC you'll find the online instructions at the USSG (importer) webite. Print them out and you're all set.

I've got a Baikal 45-70 and it's starting to frustrate me. First I was using 385 gr. cast lead bullets (Lyman mold) over 30 gr. 2400. Was getting really good groups with the right barrel, and barely passable groups with the left.

Then, I shimmed the right barrel to adjust the elevation as the left was shooting about a foot higher. Was off to the races, I thought.

Now, I shoot one right and one left. They're on the same level, and about 4" apart. Fire one more right, it's almost touching the first right. Another left, and it's a foot high and to the right.

Then, I noticed a couple of the lefts were key-holing at 50 yards. So, I went to 350 gr. jacketed. Again, good rights, passable lefts, but when I tried to bring it all together, I end up with the same result - a second left shot thats way out of whack.

Suggestions welcome.

So the adjustable barrel which you have shimmed works well, but the supposedly-fixed left barrel is wandering? Is it always the second shot out of the left barrel that is astray? Or would you say that the left barrel is simply printing huge groups with some keyholing occurring as well?

I wonder if you simply need to experiment more to find a load that shoots well out of both tubes, instead of just the right.

I've owned three Baikals so will pass along my thoughts.

IMO the main reason these inexpensive rifles are frustrating to their owners is because they involve to many variables at one time.

The very first thing you want to do is to use a decent jacketed bullet load that will shoot good. Then regulate the rifle. Once regulation is achieved then feel free to change the load, add a scope, experiment with cast bullets, etc.

But I repeat, first find a "base" load and regulation before exploring other areas. There is a lot written about these rifles if you do a search.

OK, dumb question:

I see people talking about boring the 45.70 to 45.90. If you do that can you still shoot 45.70 ammunition in the rebored gun?

Yep, with a possible slight loss of accuracy. Probably won't regulate; you'll have to see. It's a .3" freebored .45-70 at that point.

It's like shooting .38Special in a .357Mag chamber. Actually, it's more like shooting .22short in a .22lr chamber, by which I mean that after as little as 40 or 50 rounds you get a miserable ring of crud in the chamber which is difficult to remove, and which interferes with chambering the longer cases.

I had this done to a H&R single shot .45-70...had it reamed to .45-120! Loads of fun, but not practical for more than a couple of rounds of the shorter cartridges in a pinch.

Thanks for the information, I wasn't sure about the amount of taper that was in the case.

I'm happy with it as a 45.70 for now.

quote:

Originally posted by jwm:
So the adjustable barrel which you have shimmed works well, but the supposedly-fixed left barrel is wandering? Is it always the second shot out of the left barrel that is astray? Or would you say that the left barrel is simply printing huge groups with some keyholing occurring as well?

I wonder if you simply need to experiment more to find a load that shoots well out of both tubes, instead of just the right.

Correct. I'd love to find a load that works well with both barrels, but whatever I try seems to always work best in the right barrel - about 1.5" groups at 50 yards. The left groups are usually about 3-4". I find the problem with the left flyer develops when I try to do a R-L/R-L 4 shot combo to confirm regulation. I'm assuming it's because the barrels get heated enough to create the flyer. I've worked on this gun through the winter, shooting in colder weather, as that's how it'll be shot when I'm hunting. Now that the warm weather is here, my task is more difficult.

I've got this thing topped with a 1X4 Leupold, but do have a light red dot sight that I could use instead. Hopefully being lighter it won't have as much bearing on regulation.

But, the red dot has Weaver-type attachment, so if anyone has any suggestions for a Weaver base which will attach to the Baikal rib, please forward it on.

http://www.amazon.com/UAG-Tact...Weaver/dp/B004RCU23C


AGS 3/8 inch 11mm dovetail scope mount to Weaver Picatinny Mount Adapter


Price: $19.99

Our Price: $12.99

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A friend of mine was having trouble with his so he sent it away to a good gunsmith who did a proper (permanent) regulation and single load for the gun - as well as a bit of other fine tuning... and he improved the thing out of sight. I think it cost him about a grand to get the regulation, reblue and load development. Still makes for a cheap double - especially if it is functional.