The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles 470 reloads w/ meplat solidsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| 470 reloads w/ meplat solids | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
Who here has worked up loads using mono solid flatpoints, like the Barnes banded solid, for their modern double? Some makers may regulate on Federal with the Trophy Bonded and some on Woodleighs, whether it's Kynoch, Federal or Norma Woodleigh loads. As has been mentioned here by 400 Nitro we should all allow for reregulation on a new rifle. But I'm wanting to know who worked up a reload, specifically for bullets other than the original Kynoch profile, had to reregulate. Also does the Trophy Bonded 470 bullet still fall within the Kynoch profile? Obviously modern mono solids are much larger and have a much different profile/ogive. | ||
|
One Of Us |
I've tried Mike Brady's North fork cup points in a couple of 470s. In one they worked fine. In the other, I couldn't get enough speed (safely) to bring them together. They shot great individual groups, but they did not come together in the second rifle. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I've not found 470 bullets at North Fork. That said aren't they all bonded lead core? I should say that I'm looking to load 500 grainers. | |||
|
one of us |
The North Fork solids are monolithic copper, no lead. I will not give the Barnes solid in doubles warning as I have no personal experience... ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
|
| One of Us |
What warning? As stated this is for a modern rifle. I wouldn't shoot modern monolithic solids in an old English. Is it that North Fork's website does not include all products or are there discontinued products? The info there indicates that they are bonded bullets. Cross sectioned view, pretty mushrooms dug outa duggas. | |||
|
| one of us |
He does not have pictures of the solids but they are listed under "Prices." Email him and ask any questions -- he is good about responding. Here is a 450-grain NF flat-point solid in .458 WM:  GS Custom in S. Africa also make driving band style solids. I would use what the rifle manufacturer recommends in case you have a problem. But then, I am not buying a .470 and only have an inexpensive 9.3x74R, so I am just blowing smoke. Ask 400 Nitro Express about solids. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
|
| one of us |
Don't risk the Barnes. They have no accomodation for displaced metal from engraving. The North Fork and GS Custom driving band bullets have thinner driving bands with "grooves" behind them to accomodate displaces metal. North Fork makes flat nose solid and cup point semi expanding solids for the 470. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thanks Charles, I didn't look at every page of the site. Well, I'm not sure now about trying to load up meplat solids for my soon to arrive 470. It's inevitable that it will be regultated on a Woodleigh bullet. This continues to remain a very complicated world, this of double guns, when it comes to ammo, bullets, reload and factory, regulation. This is why I was enquiring of my gunmaker's rep if they could regulate on the Federal Sledgehammer solid, for the bullet profile, but eve it seems more Kynoch-like profile wise than not. These mono meplats apparently are of such a different profile-shape and length. I also concerned as to how these bullets will engage the rifling upon chambering. Not to mention pressure considerations. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Longitudinal grooves? I'm still trying to understand North Forks diagram. I ordered the Barnes as I didn't look hard enough for info on the NF solids. I don't have a problem with ditching the Barnes, I'd love to use NF. Guess the Barnes are 470 Mbogo bullets. To edit; These are Barnes Banded solids, they have grooves too. I'm not married to these Barnes, I'll give 'em away, but they do have displacement grooves. I understood the FAQ at NF about grooves but I'm confused (still, always?). I don't understand if there is an issue with this Barnes solid or an older model. | |||
|
| one of us |
Woodleigh Weldcore RNSP 500-grainers and TBSH Jack Carter Original 500-grain solids shoot equally well in my Merkel, it is not that big a deal, to adjust the powder charge a grain or two this way or that. Don't make me get out my target scans again.  The GSC FN and North Fork FP solid and Cup Point "Universal" are low stress true driving banded bullets that will also shoot well. don't obsess about it. Just do it. The North Fork bonded-nose-core softs are like TBBC softs with the solid copper shanks, but the North Fork soft is "GROOVED" not banded. NOT LONGITUDINAL GROOVES.  Different from the FN, FP, and CP mentioned above. The pictures of the bullets on the North Fork site are grooved softs. They will not be as gentle on the DR barrels as the Woodleigh soft, due to the solid shanks and grooving of the North Forks. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thx, Ron. That is you right? You've changed. OK, now I'm getting this too, among all else, and 400 Nitro hasn't even shown up yet to stick an eggbeater in my ear.  I never had reservations about the TBSS or the like it's the monometal solids. Actually I do need my brain stirred up as I ordered the Barnes banded without considering density. I knew I might've screwed up when I opened the box, they being so freaking long compared to a lead core bullet. My fault too for not really boning up on NF's. JPK and 450 #2 had done some serious kills with them, that's what I was looking in to and then got hung up on these Barnes. NF's, sure to be terrific in 470 NE, and I want a flat point over a Woodleigh. Yeah, it's fairies dancin' on a pin but the pin's a MEPLAT!  | |||
|
| One of Us |
My angle on this thread was limited to how these shot and subsequent reregulation if needed, due to diff in trad profile etc. As usual it morphed into the topic as a whole with my discovery that this is a pretty serious issue and that there is some contention over whether GS or NF are safe, for my purposes in a modern DR, or is it best to stick to Woodleighs and similarly constructed bullets. Searching, so far, again leaves me in the middle, with many knowledgable folks having safe results with monometals and others, which isn't as clear, having had problems. 400 Nitro ruining a barrel is certainly compelling and scares the shit outa me. Hell, he scares the shit outa me! But not nearly as bad as the thought of my barrels taking a giant dump esp at the wrong time. Going back to my search to read some more. | |||
|
| One of Us |
OK I'd have to say that Gerard of GS is certainly the most compelling chap with his point based in experience and fact. GS and NF look to be AOK. I just bought the wrong bullets. Anybody need a paperweight that says Barnes on the outside? | |||
|
One of Us |
Showbart: I don't have enough personal experience with shooting animals with different bullets. But for the record, I only use Woodleigh Solids and Softs in my DRs, and I very rarely use solids. Why? I have heard and read too many horror stories of people ruining barrels with hot and sexy modern bullets. (Like the beautiful Holland and Holland that has stressed rifling.) In addition, I have heard theories from a lot of more knowledgable people than myself saying what could happen to DR barrels if you shoot some of the monolithic and other bullets. I'm not a wealthy man. If I ruin a barrel on a DR, I can't just shrug it off and go buy another DR or get the ruined one re-barreled. With that said, I only use Woodleigh bullets. They are one of the closest things to the original Kynoch bullets out there. They served hunters well in the past and today. I'm sure the new driving banded bullets from NF or GS are ok, but for me... Why fuck with something that works and take unnecessary risks with your rifle barrels? Sorry, it just isn't worth it to me. Not trying to persuade you one way or another, just what I use kills animals dead. 577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express  If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | |||
|
one of us |
And most are not suitable for use in a double rifle! 400 Nitro Express, doesn't use "ANY" MONO-METAL solid in a double rifle, and reccomends against all of them in a double rifle , new or old! I, on the other hand so surely reccomend the North Fork CPS, and FPS in double rifles, and they are completely safe for your rifle, as long as you have slugged the barrel to make sure the bore is correct. I do not reccomend the Barnes mono-metal super solids, or even the mono-metal banded solids in even a new double rifle. I have used both the NF CPS, and FPS solids in my 470NE Merkel, and have had no problem with them. Because of the design, they exert less pressure on the barrel's walls, that a standard jacketed soild, and far less that the Barnes mono-metal solids. The load that regulates in my 470NE rifle with a NF CPS, solid is 105 grs H-4831sc, but try starting at 102grs, and work up! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Please don't do it as those bullets may damage your rifle. However, I have used North Fork driving band solids and GS Custom driving band solids without incident. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Simply because the GS Custom and North Fork bullets are less likely to damage your gun than Woodleigh solids. Some guys have had their double go out of regulation after 10 shots of Woodleigh steel-lined solids. It is time to acknowledge the myth that Woodleigh solids are harmless to double rifles. | |||
|
| One of Us |
577NitroExpress Double Rifle Shooters Society Francotte .470 Nitro Express If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming... | |||
|
| One of Us |
Yes, Dan & Mac, read what ya'll posted esrlier in the year. No these Barnes won't touch my DR, they're give aways now for a 470 Mbogo or Capstick shooter. Thx Paul too. This is all very interesting, unlike unravelling the mystery of 470 factory ammo from it's beginnings. Robertson's book with all the wonderful color plates of the bullets with cutaways goes a long way to helping one understand. The North Fork bullets stand out, whereas they'd been compared directly to the GS, they appear to be different, with much less contact surface. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Mac, is it H4831 or the "SC" that is for the Geo Hoffman load? Just brought home some H4831, saw the SC and thought didn't need that one. Don't know the difference. I'm on my way with my 470 setup. Got Redding dies, some Jamison brass, H4831, 1K F215s, XL base to rebuild my Forster trimmer, RCBS .50 deburr tool. Still need shell holder (RCBS?), Forster collet & pilots, and.... Some North Forks! Hope I can use this old Lee turret press, should work, I'm in no hurry. Got an old Mechanical scale that's on it's last legs. What's the diff between the RCBS and Franford digital scales? I know, about $125! Is the RCBS feature laden and worth it. The Frankford's tray is a joke tho. Edited; OK, H4831 SC, Short Cut. Does it matter which is used for 470? Federal lists on their site a 216 primer component. Is this the factory # for the 215? | |||
|
| one of us |
Showbart: My Merkel was regulated with Federal Sledgehammers. I used NF Flat and Cup points working up loads for last falls buff hunt. I got 89 gr of RL15 with a Kynoch foam filler to regulate perfectly to the Sledgehammers....actualy the NF's shot better. I chrono'd them at 2195-2203 fps. 6 shots (3 each barrel) went into 3.5" at 60 yds from my homemade standing rest. That's about as good as I can shoot an open-sighted 470. FYI, 90 gr of RL15 and a foam filler with the Woodleigh softs gave me about the same fps and also regulated perfectly....or as good as I can shoot. I took the NF's on the hunt....don't see any reason to use anything else with the double. Gary DRSS NRA Lifer SCI DSC | |||
|
| one of us |
Shobart the short cut, just allows the powder to settle more solidly in the case, with less airspace in the powder column. If the H-4831 works for you and you have some on hand try it! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles 470 reloads w/ meplat solids
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
