Anyone have a .450NE Sabatti and a pair of dial calipers that can measure the wall thickness of the breach and muzzles? I have a customer with a .45-70 wanting me to open it up to .450NE. I already know what opening up the chamber will leave the thickness at, just wondering what a factory Sabatti is at.

Should be a pretty simple conversion, only added work would be welding the rim area and recutting since the .45-70 rim is thicker.

Yep, what exactly do you want me to measure Aaron?

Mike, if you could just measure the wall thickness of the barrels on the breech end and the muzzles. On the breech end you will just measure from the inside of the chamber wall(not rim) to the outside of the barrels. If the .45-70 and .450 Sabattis share the same frame and barrels it should be around .211" thick. Then on the muzzle you will just measure from the bore wall to the otside of the barrel. This should be .070"-.100". One could also just give the outside dia of one of the barrels at the muzzle. From that I can subtract the bore dia, then divide by two to get a rough wall thickness. If done this way it should be in the .600-.650 range. Note the breech cant be measured this way.

Aaron,

On the muzzle end, measuring from the bore wall (not the lands) to the outside of the barrel it is ~.125. The outside diameter of the barrel at the muzzle is ~.705. The wall thickness at the breech is ~.280. I have to say that the wall thickness at the muzzle is very thick compared to my other double rifles. Hope that helps.

Well that confirns that they use different actions, or just don't machine the fences down as much this leaving the barrels thicker. Having the chamber wall thickness at .211 wouldn't concern me as I've seen some down to .200. The muzzle thickness difference does give me a little pause. I guess I'll need to do more research to see if others have gone as low as .070" at the muzzle. Steel should be pretty good..probably be too light for .450ne recoil.

Thanks for checking that Mike.

Anyone else have any brand .450 they can check?

No problem. Like I said, the barrels at the muzzle do look unusually thick compared to my other doubles.

They definitely used two frame sizes and the 45-70 is quite small compared to the big bores, which all used the same frame. That rifle is way too light for a 450 Nitro; not because of muzzle strength; pressure out there is very low. Breech barrel diameter is small, and that, as well as the rifle weight, precludes making them in 450 NE. So, I, do not recommend you perform this re-chambering for your customer; it will break his arm and won't last very long. It is best left as is.

A friend of mine had one, converted from 45-70 to 450 NE. It was purchased from the classifieds, right here on AR a couple of years ago.
It was simply frightful to shoot. I was working up a regulation load for him and fired it maybe a half dozen times. I think he fired one round and called it quits. He sold it and considered it a cheap lesson.
I don't recommend it.

I found mine even to be a tad light. I added a real recoil pad and a mercury reducer. Had the triggers worked over and lightened. Put a Burris Fast Fire on it. Shoots very well now with the added weight.

Sabatti 450 NE. Breech: I get .230 from the edge of the rim relief to the outside, .270 from the head of the case area to the outside.

I get .120 at the muzzles.

Yours must have been ground down. Just kidding of course. And the reality is ground or not ground, if the rifle shoots, not sure what difference it makes.

Beyond the issue of shootability, I would think the twist rates would be slower in the .45-70 than .450 NE. I would try to talk the customer into reaming to .45-90 or .45-110.

+1 for Bill/Oregon comment.
I think JCS271 has a Sabatti 450NE.
You might pm him on this network for details on his gun, weight and measurements etc.

Tetonka
DRSS 450/400 NE 3in.

Twist rate for the 45-70 is one in 22 inches; plenty to stabilize a 480 grain NE bullet; but that is not the limiting factor. Just measured my 450 NE, it is one in 20. Bottom line, do not do the rechambering job. Even rechambering to 45-90 or 110 will make the rifle virtually unshootable due to the light weight.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Yours must have been ground down. Just kidding of course. And the reality is ground or not ground, if the rifle shoots, not sure what difference it makes.

Not ground, but I did find the smallest measurement. A caliper isn't the most accurate way to measure this stuff anyway.

+ 2 for Bill/Oregon comment.

Unless the customer wants to take on a Tyrannosaur, the .45-90 loaded up like my 1886 should bust most anything. ( a 450 grain bullet at 2150 fps). It kicks a bit more than a .45-70, but is manageable.

If you do that, let us know?

Bill Stewart, who goes by "will" here on the boards converted his small frame 45-70 sabatti to .450NE. He advertised it here on the board and sold it some time later. I am betting that is probably the one mentioned above by Marty. I think it would be a real handful to shoot!

That was, indeed, the rifle. "Handful" is an understatement.