I finally got to the range with the trim little Merkel 141-E in 9,3X74, and was a bit surprised by the recoil with full-bore 270- and 286-grain loads. Not unmanageable, but certainly not very pleasant.
I'm thinking about adding a serious recoil pad. Anyone else out there want to confess that this caliber in a double on a 28-gauge frame is a bit brisk, or should I just man up and keep this intel to myself?
Biebs, lay off!

Muffle, muffle...I can't talk! :-)

Bill-
Merkels tend to be on the short side at 14.5"
You might benefit by having a longer LOP.
Buy a cheap slip on pad and then try it again.

Bill,

How's the LOP fit? That can be part of the problem, correctable with a wider pad. In any event, never be concerned about upgrading a pad for comfort. You want to enjoy shooting it.

make sure that you got a good cheek weld... so that you don't jar when you shoot...

Ha ha. This is a well kept secret. Yes, the 9.3 can be brutal in those light DRs. None of the tough guys on this forum will ever admit it. I have found it is mostly a function of drop at the heel which makes the comb smack your face. Muzzle flip from light barrels is a factor here. A scope usually helps, bringing your cheek up off the comb. LOP? doesn't matter here. A recoil pad will only protect your shoulder a bit; if it is like the other makes of 9.3s I have fired, it is not your shoulder that hurts the most. Cheek weld; doesn't seem to matter for me; the stock smacks my cheek bone no matter what.
A mercury brake will work.

I agree.

I have a light 9.3 and although it doesn't kick me as it fits me well, it does other people because of shape of stock and cheekweld.

Well done for admitting it.

Stick a Limbsaver on it - and if you need more LOP than a 1" recoil pad, they now make a
1.5" pad for big bores !!!

9.3x74Rs do tend to be built light. I would say mine is very similar to my 375H&H in terms of recoil.

Without the scope, my Chapuis does smack my cheek a bit do to a too high comb. With the scope mounted, I find it very pleasant to shoot. Mine does not have a recoil pad currently but could certainly use one without making me feel like a sissy.

However, if the 9.3 is a real issue for you, I'm thinking you might not enjoy the 577NE!!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
9.3x74Rs do tend to be built light. I would say mine is very similar to my 375H&H in terms of recoil.

Without the scope, my Chapuis does smack my cheek a bit do to a too high comb. With the scope mounted, I find it very pleasant to shoot. Mine does not have a recoil pad currently but could certainly use one without making me feel like a sissy.

Could not agree more on all counts. For the life of me I do not understand why Chapuis makes a recoil pad an option on the UGEX. Instead they build them with a gorgeous checkered butt plate.
Still, they are such a joy to carry being so light and small it is almost a crime to change anything.

Yes, the recoil is a bit brisk. Especially when working off a bench. I cannot figure out why such nice guns have a completely worthless recoil pad. A steel or horn butt plate would at least be classy. Instead they put on the cheapest looking piece of rubber synthetic manure they can find. That just burns my fourth point of contact. I use a big, strap on shoulder pad as well as a slip on recoil pad when I am at the range and that tames it considerably. I don't have a problem with getting hit in the face or maybe I am just punch drunk/numb from my old boxing days. Fortunately, it has zero recoil when I have fired it at game. I am taking mine out this Thursday to slay a hog (hopefully).

Bill
I felt the same about the recoil of my Chapuis in 9.3 so I added a Pachmeyer sporting clays pad.

The sporting clays pad has a smooth, non-stick type material on the top 1/3 so that you can mount the rifle without it hanging up on your clothing. I think I used one that was .8" thick. It looks nice and made a big difference.

I like checkered butts on my shotguns but I like to lean my rifles against a tree when I stand hunt, so the pad is great for that.

Before you start adding recoil reducers and heavy pads keep in mind the balance of the gun. It should handle like a shotgun with the balance at the hinge pin or just in front of the pin. Nothing swings worse than a butt heavy gun for fast shooting.
If you need to add a pad for LOP adjustment then you should look for the very lightest pad of the correct thickness. Many of the pads available weigh a lot and people are adding weight to the worst spot if you are trying to maintain the balance.
I have started importing Micro cell pads that in three thicknesses... thin.59" (weight 1.9oz), medium .91" (weight 2.4oz), and thick 1.26" (weight 2.9oz) for the very purpose of adjusting LOP
http://www.kebcollc.com/cart/s...6&action=show_detail

Bill,

In addition to all the above good advice, you might want to try an item made by Beartooth Products.

I originally got this comb raising kit for my 10 year old son's rifle to raise his head up a bit and pad the stock because he was shooting a .308. It is basically a neoprene sheath and you can put different sizes of pads on top of the comb to adjust your cheek weld.

On my own rifles I use just the neoprene sheath which has just enough padding (2.3mm) to take a lot of the sting out of the recoil. It fits very tightly. Or you can put one of the pads in there which allows you to really get a good tight cheek weld. I put one of these on all my rifles usually without any pad.

It also prevents the buttstock from getting a lot of scratches in the field.


http://www.beartooth-products....ising-kit-black.html

If you raise the comb height, you can't see the sights; at least on the ones I have shot. The problem is the stock angle; drop at the heel and the light weight for caliber. The height at the comb is usually correct. The rifles are so light that muzzle flip and recoil drives the angled stock into your face. There is a reason that heavier DRs have straighter stocks, as a rule. A straighter stock or a heavier rifle are the only solutions. These rifles were made for running boar shooting, off hand, and made to handle like light shotguns. Recoil handling was not a factor in their design. Or scope it and get the face off the stock some. A tight cheek weld is not the problem either. Or get a tougher face.

Just noticed what bullet weight you are shooting. The 141 comes factory regulated for the light bullet 9.3 load (232gr) for a reason. With the heavy bullet it will also kick a lot more.

Thanks guys. Lots of good advice here. Ken, I will try the lighter bullets, and will also take a close look at your pads.
Dcpd has his finger on a large part of the problem though. My cheek bone is sore this morning and I realize that I was shooting a European stock over a low front rest on the bench, so the stock rise had a direct line to smack my face. Hence I am as much to blame as the rifle.
The .500 S&W was much gentler on my old bones than the Merkel yesterday.

quote:

rest on the bench

Another problem....try standing up and shooting it like it was designed

Bill, as others above have stated my little Chapuis 9.3 has a "brisk" recoil. A friend of mine added weight to the stock and a heavier rifle is much more pleasant to shoot, especially off the bench!

What is the weight of the rifle?

Most 141's come in at 6.5lb, the Chapuis will weigh about 3/4lb more

I,ve got a lighter CZ full stock in 9,3x62, keep telling everybody that the recoil is about like getting smacked in the shoulder with a feather pillow. Found with that one, the comfort zone is about 57 grains Varget, 58 grains RL-15 with a 286, somewhere in that neck of the woods. Try to hot rod it with heavier loads, I start gettin smacked in the cheek, start wondering why I,m subjecting the gun to such abuse... Reckon that would translate to 65 grains or so of 4350 in the 74, 1/4 lb lighter gun.. Beartooth cheek pad sounds like a good idea, add some recoil pad so it can,t get a running start..
And tell no one that it kicks, not even a little. Wear dark dark shades so they can,t see ya squint before you pull the trigger.

My funky old scale shows just under 7 1/4 pounds.
Muttly, I took a CZ 550 in 9,3X62 with hot loaded Barnes 250s to Namibia in 2007, and it was far gentler on my puss than the little Merkel. But in addition to a straighter stock, it had a Limbsaver on it, if I recall correctly.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
I finally got to the range with the trim little Merkel 141-E in 9,3X74, and was a bit surprised by the recoil with full-bore 270- and 286-grain loads. Not unmanageable, but certainly not very pleasant.
I'm thinking about adding a serious recoil pad. Anyone else out there want to confess that this caliber in a double on a 28-gauge frame is a bit brisk, or should I just man up and keep this intel to myself?
Biebs, lay off!

As Gomer Pyle would say ”SURPRISE! SURPRISE!” You can join the club of folks who under estimated the recoil of solid butt plated double rifles chambered for the so-called “little 9.3X74R double rifles”.

I have two double rifles so chambered, a Merkel 140E that weighs 8.3 pounds, and a Win Grand European O/U with scope weighs just under 8 pounds loaded. I can assure you both were fitted with a Pachmayer Decelerators after the first visit to the range, and I shoot a 470NE Merkel 140-2 Safari regularly. However you will love the little Merkel, Congratulations Bill!
................................

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
My funky old scale shows just under 7 1/4 pounds.
Muttly, I took a CZ 550 in 9,3X62 with hot loaded Barnes 250s to Namibia in 2007, and it was far gentler on my puss than the little Merkel. But in addition to a straighter stock, it had a Limbsaver on it, if I recall correctly.

Bill,
I don't think it's the caliber so much as fit. Merkels don't fit me as well as some other makers "standard" stocks and I found them less pleasant to shoot.

Are there any shooting instructors or double fitters around that you can bring it to to check fit? Might be a relatively simple fix.

I own one of these Merkels in the 9.3x74R.

First: due to the changing weather here in Alberta, during the summer, I wear a browning shooting shirt with the pad that slips into the inside shoulder pocket. When it gets cold out, I take the pad out and increse the padding through sweaters and jackets. This negates the problem of overall length adjustment.

Second: Cheek-slap is an indication of an improper stock fit, but NOT so much length. I scoped my gun and find it much more pleasant to shoot; cheek higher up on the stock. Scope mounts are QD Leupolds with a 1.5-4? Leupold scope. Works like a hot-damn.

My rifle came with a dovetail for mounting a doctor optic sight, which should help get one's cheek a little higher on the gun.

If all else fails, take the gun to a COMPETANT stock maker and have it fitted.

Best of luck.

Kind regards,

Carpediem

The Merkel 141s are light for caliber with the 9.3X74R with the 286 gr loads, which is IMO, the only proper bullet weight for the 9.3X74R. So felt recoil is a little stiff with a solid butt plate.

I never had a problem with the rifle smacking me in the face, but it sure let me know I was only wearing a short sleeve shirt! In my case the Merkel I shoot is the model 140E-1 that weighs 8.3 pounds unloaded which is considerably heavier than the 141s. So you can see why the 141s hit you a little hard.

Merkel purposely fitted the stocks on the off the shelf rifles, because they knew that the new owners in many cases would have to adjust the length of pull ad would likely install a recoil pad in the process. And, I surely did just as soon as I could find a Pachmeyr Decelerator. Shoots like a pussy cat now, even with full house 286 grain soft or solids, and has become my favorite double rifle for North America, or as back up for my big bore doubles anyplace.

.........................................................................

After sending a bit of time at the range with my new U/O 45-70 and 9.3x74R. l would say that the recoil was very brisk. A lot more than l expected. My rifle is very light, and weighs in at 7 lb. l was thinking l am a sissy and the recoil was more than l needed. But kept shooting and had a good day with the new rifle.
But a new, better recoil pad is going to be fitted soon.

6 1/2 lbs for a 9.3x74 is ridiculous. I am not surprised it is kicking you, that is just crazy. I don´t know how they sell any ??!!

Gotta be the specs of each;I never enjoyed shooting my beautiful Chapuis 9.3, kicked sharply to me. The Sabatti 450/400 was just plain fun, no pain at all.Had to be the fit, cause my Chapuis -30-06 kicked more than your average bolt gun too.
Just me I'm sure.
Rick

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Bailey:
6 1/2 lbs for a 9.3x74 is ridiculous. I am not surprised it is kicking you, that is just crazy. I don´t know how they sell any ??!!

That's why I sold mine a week after I bought it. I held my breath till the 3 day right to return had expired.

Tsk! Tsk!

Shot a clients 9.3 merkel and joined the half moon club! Had mules kick me softer!

Bill:

Here is the solution. Before you shoot your 9,3, shoot a friends 416, 458, 470, or 500. Then, the 9,3 will seem like a pussycat.

I regularly shoot my little Chapuis double with no problem but I also shoot a lot of bigger bores. I only load my Chapuis to around 2250 fps with 286 grain Hornady bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Bailey:
6 1/2 lbs for a 9.3x74 is ridiculous. I am not surprised it is kicking you, that is just crazy. I don´t know how they sell any ??!!

My bolt action 9,3x62's weigh 6.5 lbs. Fit has a great deal to do with it.

The worst kicking rifle I ever fired was a Ruger tang safety 77 in 9,3x62. The stock was previously cut and a pad added. Whoever added the pad did not give the rifle any pitch. The result was all the recoil was transfered via the toe to my pec. It friggin hurt. That rifle was about 9 lbs scoped. The pad was replaced and some pitch added and the new owner couldn't be happier. I learned an invaluable lesson from that Ruger.

Those light Mausers I shoot have the correct pitch and recoil though not exactly pleaseant is quite manageable.

I'll give you $500 for the rifle.......

quote:

Originally posted by Hunt the Sun:
Shot a clients 9.3 merkel and joined the half moon club! Had mules kick me softer!

Must have been a weak mule!

Yea the 9.3 Chapuis double kicks a bit. But really nothing more than a simple "that's a bit surprising" mentioned in passing. Remember, this isn't a 308 Win or even a 30/06. It's a .366 with a 286gr bullet. That's really a substantial round but recoil is similar to a 375H&H. I love mine and don't plan to part with it anytime soon.

No you're not a sissy. There's a guy on another forum that thinks a 13lb .300 Win Mag kicks, but wants to know whether he should build a .300 or a .338 RUM. (Now how much would that have to weigh?)

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
No you're not a sissy. There's a guy on another forum that thinks a 13lb .300 Win Mag kicks, but wants to know whether he should build a .300 or a .338 RUM. (Now how much would that have to weigh?)

I saw that post as well. I think he was planning on it building out at 18 lbs! Says he won't be hauling it around in the field but rather just setting up on a hill somewhere to snipe deer.

My latest saved old Mauser is a 7 lb. 375x62 with a 300 gr. bullet at 2500 FPS..The recoil is certainly there, but not so that I can't shoot it....Recoil is shooter reflective (I made that term up btw) My recoil tolerances are just fine up to and including the .470 but prefering the 450-400..but I have been shooting the big bores for many years and recoil tolerance comes with time and effort..

I'm pretty sure that most recoil tolerence is approached wrong..many like to shoot reduced loads to build up tolerance..That never worked with me! quite the opposite, I learned to shoot a .375 by shooting a 458, the 458 by shooting a .470 and the 470 by shootin a 505 Gibbs..In other words shoot a 505 for a few months then go back and shoot a 375, and you notice how mild in recoil the .375 is...It works.

Ray, my 505 was made by Sterling Davenport for none other than Mark Sullivan.It had 22"barrel and weighed 9 lbs. On a
SSB Mauser action this was a beast. Mark wanted it to be light and handy/ loads were 138 gr. RL 22 with a 525 gr. bullet and a 3 shot group gave me a splitting headache. My wife sold it out from under me before i permanently hurt myself. never thought of putting an integral brake! The next owner did. Anything short of that 505 is pretty manageable..My friend and I managed to shoot about 125 rounds through it before it found a new home.....