Gentleman I would like ask a question..for the last 10years I been trying to get a double barrel 12ga. Rifled slug gun made..The problem is every time I start project someone why put
a lot of money in a cheap action,they tell you
Will never get your money out it..I respect all you gentlemen to tell me straight..So would someone tell me if this is a good move.I have rifled barrels top rib..matter fact I bought all this from Robert Hayden who I have
great respect for.

They're probably right, you might not ever get your money back. However, probably for a lot of us, when did that ever stop us from doing something we really wanted...and not just with firearms. You have to decide whether or not it's a good move. A friend of mine just acquired a 12 bore Paradox which may never see the game fields, was that a good move for him? Evidently he thought so.

If doing the project doesn't put a crimp in your style, why not do it? Sounds like a hoot to me!!!

Yes, the chances of ever getting real (ie inflation indexed) money back on any custom project, or even the purchase of any new firearm, are slim - unless you become some Ernest Hemingway-type celebrity ...

This is true of houses, too, of course, and yet new houses are built constantly. If nothing else, it may be a way to leave something of personal attainment behind when you go.

I just got into the Paradox game myself, BW, after shooting my friends H&H Super Magnum with Holland's ammunition. Never a more accurate double have I ever shot and I am hoping my Colindian will do the same. Now the search is on for another H&H in great condition.

You may not recover your investment in money but I bet your time and fun at the range and in the field will far surpass any diminution in your initial investment. Build it and you will love it.

Colindian..?

You have aquired a "Paradox" made by Charles Lancaster...?

PIIICS...

As I have said; I would never dissuade anyone from following a dream for any type of custom job, whether it is a car or a rifle. It is going to cost you several (6-10) thousand dollars to have your 12 gauge double rifle built; it is no different than any other double rifle. There is a lot of hand work in them that simply takes a lot of time.
If it is worth it to you, then go for it. The future value of anything should not be a criteria if you really want something; as Keynes (economist) said; "In the long run, we are all dead". There are all kinds of goods (and most services) that have no future value, in this life.
Is it a good move? Depends on your definition of "good".

http://auctions.holtsauctionee...o=++119745&saletype=

Here is an unconventional option. You will end up with a great 2 barrel set. The resale value should be good.

The fun and cool factor would be awesome.

If this rifle is in good condition, you could have a lot fun hunting real serious game with the set of barrels

Good luck with the project

Be VERY careful buying firearms at Holts. I bought two last summer--a .500 bpe double and a .50-95 model 1876 Winchester. The .500 did not have an extractor rod. Not a big deal but it cost a few hundred to make one up.

The Winchester was another story. It was rusted so bad the hammer and lever would not move. It was rusted solid! Before the auction I asked about the bore condtion and was told "dirty, it needs to be cleaned but we don't do that." Holts accepted the rifle back and refunded the price, preimum and shipping to me, although I paid to have it returned to them. The rifle is now on their website with the same description as when I bought it! See lot 903.

Ask lots of questions and get them in writing. That said I emailed twice for their last auction asking details about a Holland they had for sale adn they didn't reply to my email. I passed on bidding.
Cal

Pondoro, I was the successful bidder at Julia's and will have it in about two weeks. It is an assisted opener extractor oval bore. I ordered several boxes of Holland's paradox loads and will see how it shoots. I'm hoping really well.

BW, you may want to talk to Aaron Little about your project. He is making a set of 450-400 barrels to my McCririck hammer 16 bore and I know he can do the work. PM me if you need details.

Dutch, I am looking at Lancasters 1914 catalouge...they came with hammers and top lever, back action rebounding locks from best to C grade (30 - 55 Guineas) and hammerless with top lever in ditto grades, best grade with sidelocks and fully engraved (38 - 65 Guineas).

All where sighted for 50 and 100 yards..

All the hammerless version could be fitted with ejectors. All where 12 gauge it seems..(?)

All where made with Oval Bore barrels it seems..

Quote " The loads for the above Guns are 3 drams and 1 1/8 oz. of shot, or 3 or 4 drams of Black Powder, also suitable Cordite (not specified) and 750 grain Hollow-Pointed Express or Solid Bullet." Unquote

With all due respect, you guys have derailed Big Will's
question and needs with another un-related topic.

quote:

Originally posted by big will:
Gentleman I would like ask a question..for the last 10years I been trying to get a double barrel 12ga. Rifled slug gun made..The problem is every time I start project someone why put
a lot of money in a cheap action,they tell you
Will never get your money out it..I respect all you gentlemen to tell me straight..So would someone tell me if this is a good move.I have rifled barrels top rib..matter fact I bought all this from Robert Hayden who I have
great respect for.

The best person to ask is yourself. Here you can get a truthful and sincere answer. If you want to have what you wish. Order the gun. very simple. The one to contact is Peter Hambrusch in Ferlach. He is doing a project for me as-I-write. I asked him if he could do a set of paradoxbarrels for my Rigby..No problemo!.

So tomorrow you call him and order you project in that asumption you do want what your dreaming about!.

I don't believe Pondoro or I have derailed this thread. I have provided BW a possible source to investigate building what he desires by contacting Aaron or looking at auctions with which he can broaden his choices. I also encourage BW to look at all possibilities from other's experiences. I love the bore rifles and think he should explore all avenues. God forbid this would be the only thread someone thought was hijacked.

SKB mentioned on your other post to start with a good British shotgun.
I agree with that for the most part regarding keeping a good amount of your investment.
Aaron has a super side lock Hellis available right now that would be hard to beat for such a project.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...1078981/m/9541003632

If I had been rolling this idea around for long, I would be on the phone with him right now!

Otherwise, you could source a heavy wildfowling gun. They are usually built heavy and often have pistol grip stocking already.
I know a couple guys with guns like this and simply shoot roundballs through the smooth bores rather than go all out with rifles barrels. Works great out to 75yds or so.

Pretty sure Mr Will can't send his frame and barrels to Germany and have a rifle built on them.
I would start with a German shotgun as they have higher proof standards and are very inexpensive to buy now.
He doesn't want a paradox gun; he wants a rifled 12 gauge and he has barrels.
(I have talked to him and I know what he wants; I just have no time now to do the project). Maybe someone like Mr Little does.

First i want to thank dpcd for his comment to stay
on the orginal post.Well during the time i contacted an Italian company about making a rifled bore slug gun,well would do me one in an over and under.Just a few minutes ago i cancel the order,you see any rifle or rifled bores should be
in a sxs.So i wish Mr.Dpcd had the time this was my Christmas gift..One more thing i know the action i was going use was a cheap one this was my way of hunting Deer and Hogs.I will find a German action,and start over again..Just an Old Marine with a dream.

Big Will,

Are you married to a 12 gauge? If not you might consider the CSMC RBL double rifle in 20 gauge. See here:
RBL Professional – 20ga. Sabot Slug Gun

Just a thought...good luck,

Paul

How about a Zabala 213 with Greener Crossbolt, or a Mercury or a Zephyr built into a 12GFH

http://forums.accuratereloadin...=628105579#628105579

The reason I mentioned German double shotguns is that they are proofed higher than most other countries, and I can get them for $400 or so; vintage JP Sauers, etc.
Actually, I think the strongest shotgun on earth is the FEG, Hungary. Look at the massive side clips on that action; they are about 1/4 inch thick. Look funny though.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
The reason I mentioned German double shotguns is that they are proofed higher than most other countries, and I can get them for $400 or so; vintage JP Sauers, etc.
Actually, I think the strongest shotgun on earth is the FEG, Hungary. Look at the massive side clips on that action; they are about 1/4 inch thick. Look funny though.

I also have thought the FEG was the ideal candidate for double rifle conversion. The only issue that stopped from building one on the
FEG action was that I could not find one with striker discs (firing pin bushings); leading me to chose the Czech Brno ZP 47-49 series actions. Of these ZP actions the early ones from the 1950's and 1960's have striker discs. I think, but am not certain that the FEG uses a FN design.