Just wondering if the Barnes TSX and Banded Solids were OK to shoot in double rifles? Thought I read something somewhere about these as a no no? Thanks.

Larry Sellers
SCI (International) Life Member

I shoot them in my doubles, or did until I started shooting CEBs. They do just fine. Mr Searcy says that they will NOT hurt his rifles.

No matter what make of double I own, the only time I will shoot a solid or monometal out of my rifle is when I am shooting at game.I just dont trust solid anything in any of my rifles.Cleaning copper fouling from solids out of your bores may not be such an easy task-it could be very hard on bores.This is just my opinion.When shooting just for fun or practice it is jacketed softs for me.I have seen solids that caused so much serious fouling in some of my bores that it was impossible to remove without severe stress to the bore.I would hate this to happen to my double.I once read of a guy regulating H&H rifles back in their day say that you should shoot the least solids as possible from your barrels-because they were too hard on the bores.

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Sellers:
Just wondering if the Barnes TSX and Banded Solids were OK to shoot in double rifles? Thought I read something somewhere about these as a no no? Thanks.

Larry Sellers
SCI (International) Life Member

Larry, no problems shooting the TSX or Barnes Banded Solids in your doubles at all. I shot them extensively in my 500NE Merkel and had absolutely NO problems whatsoever. I'm currently using CEB and North Fork monos but with the exception of 7 A-Square lion loads when I first purchased my Merkel, and a box of Hornady DGX when checking factory regulation on my VC 500NE, every single bullet I've fired in my doubles has been a monometal bullet. If you read the "Double Rifle Bullet of the Future" thread by Michael458 and SRose, you'll see that the Hornady DGX and DGS, along with the Woodleigh FMJ, produce the highest barrel strains of all bullets on the market today. That being the case, and with almost all rifle manufacturers using the Hornady for regulation, logic can only follow that the bore rider monos, which produce lower barrel strains, can only be easier on the barrels.

I'm with Todd, Sam and others who faithfully use modern, banded monometal bullets in our doubles without concern. In fact, I received correspondence from Merkel and Verney-Carron attesting to the safety of monometal bullets in their doubles.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
No matter what make of double I own, the only time I will shoot a solid or monometal out of my rifle is when I am shooting at game.I just dont trust solid anything in any of my rifles.Cleaning copper fouling from solids out of your bores may not be such an easy task-it could be very hard on bores.This is just my opinion.When shooting just for fun or practice it is jacketed softs for me.I have seen solids that caused so much serious fouling in some of my bores that it was impossible to remove without severe stress to the bore.I would hate this to happen to my double.I once read of a guy regulating H&H rifles back in their day say that you should shoot the least solids as possible from your barrels-because they were too hard on the bores.

I'm sure this is going to hurt my brain, but I have to ask.


How exactly, would removing copper fouling stress the bore of your gun?

Anyone who has been shooting rifles hard and long enough knows that removing all the copper from a bore is sometimes not an easy task-especially the copper that gets in the corner between the lands and the groove and in chamberings more powerful than 308.You can be at it for hours or days with JB on a patch and brush scrubbing the bore until it gets hot.If you are shooting a double you are dealing with bores more fragile than those of bolt rifles.
Barrels have their own character and deal with each bullet their own way.Just ask Todd to post you the picture of the CEB bullet that had on it more rifle engraving than he expected.
Also, if you were to shoot a bore rider rock down your bore that will not save your bore.

I use Wipe-Out.

Haven't run a brush in a rifle bore in years.
Wipe-Out kills the copper fouling. All of it.
No brush.
No scrub.



Cheers
Tinker

quote:

Originally posted by a.tinkerer:
I use Wipe-Out.

Haven't run a brush in a rifle bore in years.
Wipe-Out kills the copper fouling. All of it.
No brush.
No scrub.



Cheers
Tinker

These words-``hard and long enough``

Larry:
I shot four boxes of Barnes Banded Solids in ,y vintage Wiles .600. No problems as they were .002 under size, and accuracy was good. Only problem is the long bullet sank too deep in the case for a full load of 4831. And, the looks are not traditional. For a non traditionalist, they should work fine.
Cheers,
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by a.tinkerer:
I use Wipe-Out.

Haven't run a brush in a rifle bore in years.
Wipe-Out kills the copper fouling. All of it.
No brush.
No scrub.



Cheers
Tinker

Agreed. For a really fouled barrel it has taken me 4 rounds of whipe-out to get the copper out. But for me I have verified with my borescope I don't know of a more effective and easier way to get all fouling out. I have a whole drawer full of brushes and have not used one now in years.

Thanks all for the great info. I use Barnes TSX and Banded Solids in my 9.3 X 62 with great results as far as accuracy and performance on game. They both shoot to the same POI. Glad to hear all is well with these two offerings. I'll also try some Nosler Partitions, Speer HC and Privi as well.

Cal - Not really into "how they look" just "how they shoot". Log me in as non-traditional, I don't shoot traditional long bows either.

Larry Sellers
SCI(International) Life Member
Soon to be DSC Member

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

quote:

Originally posted by a.tinkerer:
I use Wipe-Out.

Haven't run a brush in a rifle bore in years.
Wipe-Out kills the copper fouling. All of it.
No brush.
No scrub.



Cheers
Tinker

Agreed. For a really fouled barrel it has taken me 4 rounds of whipe-out to get the copper out. But for me I have verified with my borescope I don't know of a more effective and easier way to get all fouling out. I have a whole drawer full of brushes and have not used one now in years.

+1 for me as well. I use Wipe-Out and Patch-Out together. Firstly, I don't really see the need for much cleaning of the big bore rifles as we really aren't talking about 1000 yard match shooting, but yeah, occasionally I do clean the fouling completely down to the bore's metal. My 9.3 is a little different in that for some reason, the left barrel starts behaving strangely after 50 or 60 rounds and no cleaning. So, yep, I clean that one a bit more often as I use that rifle for much longer range shooting and a little fouling can make a difference in its regulation.

And as Mac states, it usually takes about 4 applications to get it completely clean. No brushes required.

Modern monometal "solids" aren't the same animal as the old ones of just a few years ago. Manufacturers now know how to make the engraving surfaces smaller than even a traditional jacketed bullet, and use alloys that don't foul much. Particularly the CEB, of which I have been shooting a few due to the cost, but after 20 shots, I was surprised to find no brass fouling at all; not even the usual "wash". I get far more copper fouling from Hornady DGS/X bullets, and they aren't even made from copper. They are steel with a copper plating. I don't bother removing it all; that is a waste of time. Cleaning a bore down to the bare metal is like washing an iron frying pan with detergent; you will have to season it again before it will work. Which is why I don't do either.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Anyone who has been shooting rifles hard and long enough knows that removing all the copper from a bore is sometimes not an easy task-especially the copper that gets in the corner between the lands and the groove and in chamberings more powerful than 308.You can be at it for hours or days with JB on a patch and brush scrubbing the bore until it gets hot.If you are shooting a double you are dealing with bores more fragile than those of bolt rifles.
Barrels have their own character and deal with each bullet their own way.Just ask Todd to post you the picture of the CEB bullet that had on it more rifle engraving than he expected.
Also, if you were to shoot a bore rider rock down your bore that will not save your bore.

Thats pretty much the nonsense I expected.

This word:

Unnecessary

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by a.tinkerer:
I use Wipe-Out.

Haven't run a brush in a rifle bore in years.
Wipe-Out kills the copper fouling. All of it.
No brush.
No scrub.



Cheers
Tinker

These words-``hard and long enough``

Shootaway you should really try wipeOut
In comparison to copper solvents on brushes and patches and JB paste -- it's revolutionary.
Also, don't make assumptions about how much or what I shoot. I live on acerage in the high desert. Here we don't need to wait until the range opens, we simply open a conveniently located window...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by shootaway:
You can be at it for hours or days with JB on a patch and brush scrubbing the bore until it gets hot.QUOTE]

Shootaway, if you are unwilling to try Wipe-Out then try JB paste, not JB Spot Weld...

Mac

Did you use any other solvent to remove the carbon?

I just cleaned a few rifles last week - after shooting 20 to 60 rounds in them. I suspect that previous cleanings were not to metal and old deposits were still in the bore. I used Accelerator along with Wipe out / Patch out.

I was surprised to see more copper being removed after I had scrubbed the bore with a regular solvent!

It looks like the copper & carbon are layered over each other and this takes a fair bit of cleaning. In my 416 Rigby I used 6 or 7 swabs of W/O with 2 or 3 Accelerator applications. I used solvent to remove carbon twice.

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

quote:

Originally posted by a.tinkerer:
I use Wipe-Out.

Haven't run a brush in a rifle bore in years.
Wipe-Out kills the copper fouling. All of it.
No brush.
No scrub.



Cheers
Tinker

Agreed. For a really fouled barrel it has taken me 4 rounds of whipe-out to get the copper out. But for me I have verified with my borescope I don't know of a more effective and easier way to get all fouling out. I have a whole drawer full of brushes and have not used one now in years.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Mac

Did you use any other solvent to remove the carbon?

I just cleaned a few rifles last week - after shooting 20 to 60 rounds in them. I suspect that previous cleanings were not to metal and old deposits were still in the bore. I used Accelerator along with Wipe out / Patch out.

I was surprised to see more copper being removed after I had scrubbed the bore with a regular solvent!

It looks like the copper & carbon are layered over each other and this takes a fair bit of cleaning. In my 416 Rigby I used 6 or 7 swabs of W/O with 2 or 3 Accelerator applications. I used solvent to remove carbon twice.

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

quote:

Originally posted by a.tinkerer:
I use Wipe-Out.

Haven't run a brush in a rifle bore in years.
Wipe-Out kills the copper fouling. All of it.
No brush.
No scrub.



Cheers
Tinker

Agreed. For a really fouled barrel it has taken me 4 rounds of whipe-out to get the copper out. But for me I have verified with my borescope I don't know of a more effective and easier way to get all fouling out. I have a whole drawer full of brushes and have not used one now in years.

Carb-Out...same company. Sharp Shoot R

quote:

You can be at it for hours or days with JB on a patch and brush scrubbing the bore until it gets hot.

What a MORON! Scrubbing a patch until it gets hot enough to "stress" a rifle barrel.....

Can this guy really be that damn dumb? Really?


.


.

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
Mac

Did you use any other solvent to remove the carbon?

I just cleaned a few rifles last week - after shooting 20 to 60 rounds in them. I suspect that previous cleanings were not to metal and old deposits were still in the bore. I used Accelerator along with Wipe out / Patch out.

I was surprised to see more copper being removed after I had scrubbed the bore with a regular solvent!

It looks like the copper & carbon are layered over each other and this takes a fair bit of cleaning. In my 416 Rigby I used 6 or 7 swabs of W/O with 2 or 3 Accelerator applications. I used solvent to remove carbon twice.

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

quote:

Originally posted by a.tinkerer:
I use Wipe-Out.

Haven't run a brush in a rifle bore in years.
Wipe-Out kills the copper fouling. All of it.
No brush.
No scrub.



Cheers
Tinker

Agreed. For a really fouled barrel it has taken me 4 rounds of whipe-out to get the copper out. But for me I have verified with my borescope I don't know of a more effective and easier way to get all fouling out. I have a whole drawer full of brushes and have not used one now in years.

I have not had a carbon problem with my rifles. I am wondering could you possibly be getting a false reading of copper from your brass cleaning jag & or brush if you are using one?

is this baikal on photo or

Do you really believe you can run a brush up and down the bore enough to overheat a barrel?

quote:

posted document.write('<nobr>'+ myTimeZone('Thu, 02 Jan 2014 04:30:45 GMT-0800', '02 January 2014 16:30')+'</nobr>');02 January 2014 16:3002 January 2014 16:30Hide PostAnyone who has been shooting rifles hard and long enough knows that removing all the copper from a bore is sometimes not an easy task-especially the copper that gets in the corner between the lands and the groove and in chamberings more powerful than 308.You can be at it for hours or days with JB on a patch and brush scrubbing the bore until it gets hot.If you are shooting a double you are dealing with bores more fragile than those of bolt rifles