I bought the gun a few years ago and have only fired it myself now. The bottom ejector doesn't work and the firing pin strikes too lightly on several shots...It'll be headed to my (very competent) gunsmith...Just wondering if this is common.

I also understand that the barells are not truly regulated on these rifles. Any knowledge re: same Thanks!

PS- I have a .270 O/U Browning that I love...

quote:

Originally posted by joester:
I bought the gun a few years ago and have only fired it myself now. The bottom ejector doesn't work and the firing pin strikes too lightly on several shots...It'll be headed to my (very competent) gunsmith...Just wondering if this is common.

I also understand that the barells are not truly regulated on these rifles. Any knowledge re: same Thanks!

PS- I have a .270 O/U Browning that I love...

Joester, If the rifle has been stored away for a long time without being shot, it probably just needs a through cleaning. The grease in the actions tends to solidify over time if not used regularly. This could retard the movement of the firing pins, and effectively keep the ejector form working properly.

On the regulation issue, you will be lucky if the rifle will hit a 2 ft target at 50 yds with both barrels. I have one of these rifles chambered for 9.3X74R that I bought from a member here that claimed he had never shot it, but when he shipped it to me it came with 5 fired pieces of brass. It was a month before I could get any ammo, and when I shot it, it turned out to be a pig in a poke. It will print one inch groups with either barrel at 50 yds but five inches apart from each other, diagonally with the top barrel being 4 inches to the right and high, and the bottom barrel being 4 inches to the left and 5 inches lower than the top barrel.

Since the barrels are BRAZED together re-regulating is not any easy option. These rifles are pretty but are useless because the company who made them for Winchester didn’t know what they were doing, and simply placed the barrels in a jig, bore sighted them and brazed them together. They can be re-regulated but finding some one who will do it is a real search, and costly as well.

Sorry to tell you the bad news but like you I got stung for $3K for a pretty wall hanger!

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Mac,
Many thanks! I emailed JJ @ Chapius Arms & he"ll attempt to regulate it. My gunsmith suggested that I first try different ammo/ bullet weights in each barrel and if the groups come close, go with that. I'd use the gun for hogs, maybe deer . Wondering what you think of the " specific bullet per barrel" theory?

joester

It would not be a bad idea to try some different loads in this rifle before you send it off. You never know, you might find something acceptable. I would keep very good recores of where each barrel shot each different load, as you might fine 2 different loads that would shoot close together, one in the top barrel and the other in the bottom barrel. Acain you never know till you try...

However Mac is correct, these rifles were not properly regulated when built.

If you like the rifle and plan to use it,then after the above testing, I would select the load in the bullet weight I liked that shot best in each individual barrel, buy several hundred rounds of it, and have JJ re regulate the rifle.

If the rifle is not scoped, and you want it scoped, I would have the scope fitted by JJ and regulated with the scope on the rifle.

I bought a .30/06 s/h for $1000 in 1985 as a speculation, knowing they sold new for thousands more. The barrels would not shoot within a foot of each other at 50 yards.

As the inventor of a sight that would fix this with a separate leaf for each barrel, flipped over by recoil intertia, you could say it had come to the right place. But my sight was still in prototype form and the rifle was too pretty to muck around with, so I sold it on at a small profit.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
I bought a .30/06 s/h for $1000 in 1985 as a speculation, knowing they sold new for thousands more. The barrels would not shoot within a foot of each other at 50 yards.

As the inventor of a sight that would fix this with a separate leaf for each barrel, flipped over by recoil intertia, you could say it had come to the right place. But my sight was still in prototype form and the rifle was too pretty to muck around with, so I sold it on at a small profit.

The working up of different loads for my rifle would be an exercise in futility, and a waste of components!

When the rifle is placed in a vice with the action leveled, then looking at the muzzles what you see is the top barrel is point right of center, and the bottom barrel is pointing left of center. The misalignment of the barrels is drastically evident.

Even though the wedges are brazed I can re-regulate the rifle myself but since I retired from my job at American Airlines I don’t have access to a very well appointed machine shop. That in combination with the homeland rules now, even employees can’t bring any part of a firearm onto company shops property. For may years I built and worked on many firearms in our machine shops on my spare time. Not today though! I retired in 1996 and have been handicapped ever since!

The wedges are brazed in, but the ribs are soft soldered on these rifles. With the ribs removed there is access to the wedges, and those wedges can be sawn down the center length wise with the barrels laying on their side for the over/under using a very thin band saw blade leaving half of the wedge brazed on each barrel.

This allows a thin wedge to be placed between these two halves that can be soft soldered in between them so the barrels can be manipulated. To regulate the barrels then reinstall the ribs. The heat needed to soft solder will not effect the brazing of the two halves of the original wedge. If the barrels need to be adjusted closer together the saw cut can be widened to give more room for barrels to be pulled together on the new wedge. The center wedge can be treated the same way if the barrels need to be tweaked side to side. This form of re-regulation is more intrusive than most simple re-regulation systems because the ribs have to be totally removed, and replaced which will require re-soldering the ribs back in place,carding and re-rust blueing!

The two sights, one for each barrel if flipped by recoil could be quite problematic in a tight spot and re-regulation is a far better fix IMO!

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
joester

If the rifle is not scoped, and you want it scoped, I would have the scope fitted by JJ and regulated with the scope on the rifle.

Tony an Over under is not effected by the weight of a scope near as much as it is with a side by side. Because the O/U just recoils back and up in line with both barrels. The side by side recoils back, up and away from the other barrel, and the scopes weight is above and to the side of both barrels. The weight of the scope and the height of the mount effect the regulation a lot more than with a O/U. I would regulate an over under with the irons, and adjust the scope to the same load on an over under.

All just one joker's opinion, however!



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When I had my FN-Browning CCS25 9,3x74R scoped, the barrels had to be re-regulated. Presently and scoped, both bbls. shoot in 1 hole at 50 m. With the scope taken off, bbls. shoot apart, just the same as a s/s does.


Both barrels at 50 m with scope.

I have a Grand European in .257 Roberts. with my not so good anymore 60 yr old eyes, open sights I was shooting 6" groups (both bbls) at 100 yds. I bought a HiViz front sight to help with my vision but have not installed it yet.

maybe the small caliber helps?

I had one in 7MM Mauser that would also shoot about 6" apart vertically at 75 yds. I sent it off to JJ for re-regulation ( I guess I shouldn't say re-regulation since it hadn't been done the first time!)

After he worked on it, the rifle would shoot about 1 1/2" groups as I recall. I didn't like it because of the rimless cartridge, but that would have been an easy fix to make into a 7X57R.

That was with a scope mounted. I had JJ regulate it with the scope attached as that was how I planned to use it.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
I bought a .30/06 s/h for $1000 in 1985 as a speculation, knowing they sold new for thousands more. The barrels would not shoot within a foot of each other at 50 yards.

As the inventor of a sight that would fix this with a separate leaf for each barrel, flipped over by recoil intertia, you could say it had come to the right place. But my sight was still in prototype form and the rifle was too pretty to muck around with, so I sold it on at a small profit.

The two sights, one for each barrel if flipped by recoil could be quite problematic in a tight spot and re-regulation is a far better fix IMO!

It think the tight spot when this would be a problem would be minimal, Mac, as any critter threatening would be heading towards you, whereby even if the sight failed to flip, he would be so close it would probably not matter.

The sight was patented with a number of versions, most of which had a fixed express sight for close range with the alternating leaves to be set up for 70-100 yards. The main versions for double rifles (rather than to be stuck on shotguns) reset themselves if you fired one barrel and reloaded before shooting again.

From my experience of shooting at running game with a db rifle, one that fires the second barrel much lower than the first might actually be a good thing. I say this having found the need to have a small bead tucked deep into an express-sight V tends to get forgotten in the heat of the moment