Does anyone out there use or at least practice with cast bullets in the 9.3 x 74R or 450/400 3" ?
My thoughts are that a second scope could be zeroed to the cast bullets and it would be cheap practice. Anyone have any knowledge on this issue? Are there any problems using or getting cast bullets for these calibers?

I use the NEI .366-260-GC-DD #174 245 cast bullet in the 9,3x74R. They weight abt 290 grains when cast in wheelweight. Is sized to .367 and lubed with Carnauba Red. Works fine though it took a while to find a load that regulated. Using AA5744 as a propellant.

The best bullet molds are made by Paul Jones or Steve Brooks. Both have websites. You can get the exact diameter and weight you want and the quality is fantastic compared to all the rest.

NEI is mediocre, but can be servicable.


Buffalo Arms will have some factory molds in stock.

j

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
I use the NEI .366-260-GC-DD #174 245 cast bullet in the 9,3x74R. They weight abt 290 grains when cast in wheelweight. Is sized to .367 and lubed with Carnauba Red. Works fine though it took a while to find a load that regulated. Using AA5744 as a propellant.

Mike, circumstances could be completely different but a very qualified reloader and shooter blew up a Merkel 470 NE using cast bullets and 5744.

The metalurgist is 95% sure the throat leaded heavily after 8-10 rounds of cast bullets before one round pushed it all to a point just forward of the throat where it became an obstruction and burst the barrel.

There were many shooters that day. One had just fired both barrels and handed it to the shooter that was injured (not seriously) to shoot. The first round burst the barrel so a sqibb load is absolutely eliminated as the problem.


That was with a 5744 charge recommended by the Accurate Arms ballistician. There are so many contributing possibilities that we can imagine but not establish as fact that the truth may never be known. But as a result, I quit shooting that combination. There had to be some initial blow-by to lead the throat like that so bullet diameter and bearing surface are important. The main lesson is that even a powder designed for reduced loads, used in the right, amount can bite you in the ass under the right conditions.

This is quite alarming to me. I have just started casting, to make inexpensive low power practice loads for my 470 NE. I'm using the RCBS 500gr mould, and 35gr 0f 5744. I'm not worried about regulation, as I'm practicing at less than 25 yards for an upcoming elephant hunt. Velocity is around 1200fps.
I usually end the practice session with 4-6 full boat hunting loads with 500gr Woodleighs. If a gun blew up with a low pressure round, one can only imagine what would happen with a full load.
This casts doubt on using cast bullets on doubles, sure. They are not as strong as bolts. But if this can happen on a double, it is at least possible on a bolt as well. It casts doubt on using any cast bullets for reduced loads for any rifle.
Is there any more info about the mishap? Any chance the offending round might have been double charged? Does anyone have any more stories like this?
I'll cross post this on cast bullets. I'd really like to know more.

That particular load of 5744 would have stuck out like a sore thumb if it had been doubled. The fellow that loaded these is as meticulous as anyone I have ever met and I do not believe the fault was the load. The bullets were commercially cast with a bright ruby red lube; I do not know the brand. The barrel was heavily leaded during the day's shooting. The folks that have tried to figure it out (including Merkel) all looked to the easiest excuse. The metalurgist actually tried to do some forensics. It would appear that the primer and inital ignition pushed the bullet just forward of the throat and it stopped just nano-seconds before the charge pressure would normally peak. The bullet acted as an obtruction at that point and the pressure went off the scale. The rupture initiated in the throat area.and blew pieces of chamber out the right side and back. The injuries weren't serious but there was a lot of bleeding from cuts and a VERY big gouge in his right glass lense. He would be blind in that eye today if not for his glasses.

This may just a one-of-a-kind freak or it may be indicative of many things that weren't quite right in this particular instance that lead to a sequence of compounding nasties. Maybe the lot of lead was too soft in those bullets or they were undersized. They shouldn't have leaded like that.

One obvious preventative is to make damn sure whatever cast load you are shooting isn't leading the barrel.

This is a simple minded question.
I know what copper fouling looks like. I can see it on the lands at the muzzle. What does a lead fouling condition look like? How do you know if it's excessive?

Apparently a case (pun intended) of SEE although this is the first time I've actually seen it with a cast bullet. Lighter loads of 5744 do not burn efficiently in such large cases, especially when loaded and raised from the muzzle down position as most doubles are. I also might add that I had a disaterous experience with 5744 in a trapdoor. I also am pretty meticulous but forgot to do the "visual" inspection of the cases in the loading block before seating the bullet. The 5744 had "bridged" in my powder thrower and I had one very light cahrge and one excessive charge.

I'm not saying that IS what happened in this case but it seems more likely than an SEE with a cast bullet. I have seen some pretty badly leaded barrels (couldn't even see much rifling) and still not give excessive pressures to blow up a rifle. Many times we are not want to look at the real problem and instead seek a technical or mechanical blame. Most often the reason is "pilot error".

Back to the question of this thread though. many years ago I helped a very nice old gentleman wotk up a cast load for a very nice .450 Nitro-express (3 1/4) double rifle. We used a Lee C548-500-FN sized at .459 and lubed with Javelina NRA 50/50 lube. Hornady GCs were used. The alloy was a 50-50 WW/linotype with the bullets being water quenched from the mould.

We worked up to 70 gr of 3031 with a 2-3 gr dacron filler (not wad) over the powder. The muzzle velocity (Oehler M10) was 2130 fps which duplicated the Kynock factory loads for which the rifle was regulated. That cast bullet also shot to "regulation" and was every bit as accurate as the Kynock load. He had 40 reloadable cases and after working up the load we loaded all the cases and shot them in one very pleasant session. Not a bit of leading and wonderful accuracy. We were just neck sizing the cases in my 45-70 dies and they worked fine. I probably cast and loaded a couple hundred rounds after that for him and went shooting several times with him. Alas he passed away a couple years lator and I then could not afford the rifle.

My recommendation is to use a good gas checked cast bullet of equal weight to factory loads, a good 50/50 alox/beeswax lube, a medium burning powder and a dacron filler in either of the mentioned cartridges.

Larry Gibson

I have shot cast bullets & 5744 out of a Merkel that I used to own,never had any problems,but did not like the idea of such a small amount of powder in such a big case,I moved on to lighter bullets for my 470 & full house loads,the reduced recoil made it easy enough to plink with,reasonable in price to reload & fun to hunt pigs with,5744 is a very hot powder,it's not very forgiving at all if you make mistakes.

Guys,

I weigh all charges going into a round to be fired in a double rifle. I've used 5744 in the 9,3x74R Chapuis and the 470 NE Searcy.

With Carnauba Red lube I see very little lead fouling during a shooting session. I do clean barrels before switching to jacketed bullets.

Will be shooting the doubles more in the next couple of years and will most likely work up an RL-15 load with dacron filler to give me a load that is close to jacketed bullet velocities.