I've read a few times on here about people asking if such and such a shotgun is strong enough to have a pair of rifle barrels fitted to it. Are there gunsmiths that do this? For instance, I read of one poster saying that a Browning BSS is OK to build a .450-400 on. If I had a BSS and wanted to get a set of .450-400 barrels made for it, who would I have do that and about how much would that cost? Just kind of curious about this, as it sounded interesting but honestly I'm just asking for possible future reference.

There are gunsmiths that do this and there is even a book about doing it written by Ellis Brown whom used to do it. Being a double gun builder its something I can tackle. Cost depends on who does it. If you want to discuss it we can do it in a private manner...

Theres a lot to it though. You can either use the shotgun tubes and make them into a monoblock. Its possible to modfy the forend iron to fit, but new wood will need to be inletted, shaped, and checkered.

Making a shoe lump s what I am more familiar with. With this you would be able to keep the shotgun tubes and forend. A new forend iron would need to be made and wood fitted.

Ether way its a costly project.

You might be ahead of the game to just have Butch build you a field grade to your specs for $8,750.

Unless you do the work yourself as a hobby, it costs more than just buying a new DR; and when you die, your heirs can sell it. With a shotgun conversion, no one wants to touch those (second hand, so to speak) so you will never get any money for it. With a new one, you can make money years down the road. Usually. Of course, if you want one, yes, there are gunsmiths who do that sort of thing for others.

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Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
You might be ahead of the game to just have Butch build you a field grade to your specs for $8,750.

That would be my suggestion as well, and you will have a REAL double rifle made to fit you, and it will increase in value as time goes by if it is cared for properly. The other advantage is Searcys are as accurate as any double rifle I'm aware of!

So what makes a double rifle REAL? More than a few manufacturers use the same action for shotguns as they do double rifles. Also not sure why a action that was originally a rifle can be more accurate than a shotgun converted to a rifle if done correctly.

I'm not saying it should be done with just any shotgun, and I agree a modification like this isn't done for investment. But I'd have no issue making a double using a Simson action, stocked to your dimensions with options that a manufacturer just won't do in that price bracket. All this at I price I think is fair for what you get.

From what I gather the Searcy field grade at that price, while a great rifle, doesn't offer much in options at the stated price. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he uses standard stock dimensions only adjusting LOP. It doesnt look to accept a scope, so fitting one is extra. Also I believe he has set barrel lengths. Its a gun built at a price point, so likewise the options are cut off to reduce production time.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Little:
So what makes a double rifle REAL?

One that started life as a double RIFLE instead of one converted from a shotgun.

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More than a few manufacturers use the same action for shotguns as they do double rifles.

You are correct they do, but the actions were made for double rifles and used to make their shotguns, not the other way around.

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Also not sure why a action that was originally a rifle can be more accurate than a shotgun converted to a rifle if done correctly.

The key words here are "if done correctly"!

My statement about accuracy was in regard the SEARCY double rifles only. I have owned about every brand of double you can name over the last 60 years, including two made by me on Browning BSS shotgun actions and I have never seen any of them that were better regulated or more accurate than a Searcy.

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I'm not saying it should be done with just any shotgun, and I agree a modification like this isn't done for investment. But I'd have no issue making a double using a Simpson action,

Again you are correct, they aren't done for investment, but they shouldn't loose half their cost on a re-sale either! All the shotguns from Saul Germany, Simpson, or Merkel are made on rifle actions anyway, and are fine for conversion to rifle from shotgun. However you are not saving anything by doing so, because you can buy the action with rifle barrels to begin with and the factory can do the job better than most general gun smiths.

Also the action will be stamped with shotgun proof marks, and it won’t re-sale as anything but a conversion, even though it is the same action as a factory rifle. People fear these conversions, and they are hard to sell. A factory rifle on the same action with rifle proof marks will sell easier and for a higher price. The only way one can come out well is if he builds the rifle conversion himself to save the machining bench cost. If it is commissioned, the cost of the finished shotgun to rifle conversion will run very close to a factory rifle on the same action. If the guy commissions a shade tree "so-called" double rifle smith what he will get is a nightmare, that will be glue factory fodder.

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stocked to your dimensions with options that a manufacturer just won't do in that price bracket. All this at I price I think is fair for what you get.

You personally may or may not be skilled in the building of a double rifle on a shotgun action, but I'm sure you have seen some of the examples of some of the rifles built by plumbers that wouldn't make a good gate post.

One that has written a couple of books on the subject and had examples of his work in the Custom gun Guild at DSC. It would seem he would display his best work there, but if what I saw was his best work, my plumber could do better.

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From what I gather the Searcy field grade at that price, while a great rifle, doesn't offer much in options at the stated price. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he uses standard stock dimensions only adjusting LOP. It doesn’t look to accept a scope, so fitting one is extra. Also I believe he has set barrel lengths. Its a gun built at a price point, so likewise the options are cut off to reduce production time.

You are wrong, all Searcy doubles are fitted to the customers measurements. The only
difference is the wood is not an upgrade, but his base wood is better than most makers
upgrade. You are correct however that the scope setup is extra on any rifle he builds.

I posted to simply agree with Snowwolfe, and dpcd above, and I still do agree with them both!!
............................................................................................

Im not your average gunsmith. Making a set of barrels, regulating, and stocking an action is well within my means and something i've done numerous times.

Just for grins lets change the termnology. Instead of conversion lets call it a custom rifle. Do you not see any hypocracy in the fact that a lot of custom rifle makers use already produced military Mauser actions, make modificatons to turn it into a big bore, restock, and sell it for 15k+? And thats a substantial market when compared to doubles. A Rigby will run you double that prce. Arent there already manufacturers that make big bore bolt guns for less money?

I also offer 24 or 26 inch barrels, and now wood upgrades.
searcy@ccis.com If this doesn't work try the gmail
bls.doubles@gmail.com
www.searcyent.com
760-762-6131

I think it is a matter of name recognition and reputation as much as the quality of the work that will make a DR salable 20 years from now. No offense to those who can and do, perform excellent work; but people don't like to buy DRs with makers names they don't recognize, for high dollars. Unless they are made in England. Just my opinion; no hate mail please.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Little:
Im not your average gunsmith. Making a set of barrels, regulating, and stocking an action is well within my means and something i've done numerous times.

Just for grins lets change the termnology. Instead of conversion lets call it a custom rifle. Do you not see any hypocracy in the fact that a lot of custom rifle makers use already produced military Mauser actions, make modificatons to turn it into a big bore, restock, and sell it for 15k+? And thats a substantial market when compared to doubles. A Rigby will run you double that prce. Arent there already manufacturers that make big bore bolt guns for less money?

Aaron I'm not going to argue with you all day about this. The fact is the buying public is far more likely to buy a used factory made double than a shotgun/rifle conversion, no matter how well it is done. That was my only point.

I've bought and sold a lot of double rifles in the last 60 years since I bought my first one in 1958 when I was 22 yrs old, I've seen a lot of conversions sit on the rack in gun shops for two or three years before they sold, and then at a heavy discount. Double rifle people are simply wary of conversions where double rifles are concerned!
......................................................................................Now I'm through with this! BYE

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Little:
Im not your average gunsmith. Making a set of barrels, regulating, and stocking an action is well within my means and something i've done numerous times.

I don't think anyone here was doubting your skills. How about you post a price and a few examples of your work and the time line for completion? Not im PM's but for all to see and compare. I would love another double, especially if I can shave a few thousand off what currently is on the market.

Being that I work full time under a double gun builder I dont have the time to take in a substancial amount of work. At this time I would rather go buy word of mouth and only take in one project at a time.

On the proof mark subject; I question the legality of removing or filling proofmarks. They have no provinance in the U.S. and are not required by U.S. law. I believe the only required marking are serial number< manufacturer info, and caliber markings on the barrel.

Im also young(22) and dont have a large portfolio of my own. I did create a thread on another forum showing my progress startng in gunsmithing school that continues to my time on the job. Here it is, go to the last few pages to see current work.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bb...=2&t=241178&start=80

Nice work Aaron.

Nice work; if you work for a gun maker ( Bailey Bradshaw) I assume you have non-competition clause in your contract. But you are young and have time to establish your own reputation, which is good since everyone else on this forum is old. Some more so than others.