I've long wanted a nice double rifle but the nicer ones or ones that I'm interested in all seem out of reach financially. Out of reach, that is until I open a safe and look at a life time of buying, trading and collecting what could easily turn into a nice double or three and almost (almost) a new H&H Royal, just sitting there collecting dust.
I know next to nuthin about double rifles, I've handled some of Mr. Butch's guns at local shows and rubbed on a H&H Royal at Champlin's a long time ago that was made for a man in India that was very nice, with a lot of history but if I would have bought it I would have owned it but it would not have been mine, if you know what I mean.
So not wanting to risk an argument or possibly hurting someone's pride, what would you pick for a good working class double, 470 or larger. Currently manufactured, blued, color cased, maybe a little engraving. Something nice but solid. Remember I said "almost" an H&H Royal in the safe, give or take a 1/4 or a 1/2 a BS degree at UA or AU for one of my three piglets.
Feel free to make a list if you want and justification if you will. This ain't a poll, I really want a big double rifle. I've read a lot on the net and any publication with "Dangerous Game" or "Double Rifle" on the cover but can not find much on William Evans. Yes I have read all of P.H.C's work more than once since I was a teenager. I'm fixing to turn 50 and if I'm going to get one, I need to do it now.
Thanks
Steve

Steve the loss in buying a new zroyal would be great and the process time consuming. Would i do it if i could really afford it? Probably!

However, a good used one, like the 500/465 Champlins have, seems a terriffic buy to me and put the saved money into nice safari's.

There a lots new guns around too, nowhere near the price of a new Royal. Bespoke Westley Richards etc. But i do like the old Royals.

Good luck with your journey.

Best wishes, Chris

I currently have one of Butch's Doubles, a .500 NE in the field grade rifle he sold. Can I buy a fancier rifle? Hell yes. But I got more than my money's worth in that gun. He is currently making me a bit fancier .470 with modest engraving and I can't wait to see it. One other plus is that Butch is a wealth of information on Doubles and isn't shy about talking. You have to take this with a grain of salt because, Butch is a friend of mine now but I don't believe you can go wrong with one of his doubles.

quote:

So not wanting to risk an argument or possibly hurting someone's pride, what would you pick for a good working class double, 470 or larger. Currently manufactured, blued, color cased, maybe a little engraving. Something nice but solid.

I would get a Chapuis .470 from JJ at Champlins. My $0.02.

http://www.champlinarms.com/De...StyleID=3&GunID=2595

Welcome to the forum. You are in luck there are a lot of good working rifles out there. You indicated you were looking at new verses used so I will give you some ideas and I am sure there will be more to come as this is an extremely subjective subject. Let me list a few in no specific order.
Chapuis makes a nice rifle.
Verney-Carron is one you can have built to your measurements and make it yours.
Butch Searcy will make you a great rifle.
Krieghoff is the safest rifle you can own and is a great shooting rifle .
Heym is a great working rifle.
This is a start there are several others out there but only you know your comfort level.
Bill

There are lots of guys on here with way more knowledge than I have about Double Rifles and have possessed quite a few of them in various forms and makers
However, I have fondled quite a few in my lifetime, from the average Chapuis to the over the top Rigby's and Purdy's

There are some manufacturing attempts at making a cheap double like Pedersoli or Kodiak or something like a Baikal with rifle inserts (very funky double shotgun/rifle thingy).
Sabatti's I think are of a higher quality than the other ones I mentioned and some guys have had some good luck with them - some have not. I have not had any issues with mine, it shoots (I shoot)just as well with it as my VC. I have one of the 45-70's and it is fun and inexpensive to shoot. Although I would not consider it an elephant gun it is certainly capable of doing the job.
For a real double the afore mentioned makers by the other guys are certainly good advise, however I would not rule out a Merkel or a Griffin and Howe, priced along the same lines as a Kreighoff, Chapuis, Heym, Searcy or Verney-Carron. Dealing with guys on this forum I would expect you to get more for your money with VC or Searcy and probably more tailor fit for the cost.
If you stay under the larger medium bore calibers, say with a 9.3x74, you will also save a bunch on cost. When you get into the larger frames and 400 + calibers the price jumps significantly.
And before someone tells you otherwise, a 9.3 x 74 is very adequate for anything although it may feel like a tooth pick when you are looking an elephant in the eye

Take a look at the Heym 470 in the Safari model.

I spent about 5 years mulling this question over. Each year I went to the SCI show and bounced back a forth between the DR booths. Heym, Krieghof, Chapuis, Merkel, VC, Searcy... I looked at the old guns and used modern ones. In the end once I understood them all as well as I could and what I'd be getting for my money I easily settled on a VC though that I was soo close to having a Heym built.

There are lots of nice doubles out there. Take your time and get the one that best fits your needs. Right now is probably the best time to buy a double rifle. There are more for sale now than ever and plenty of brands to choose from. Some good and some bad but for the most part good. If you get in a rush you will have a safe full of doubles too before you find what you want.

I mulled over this exact topic about 10 years ago before I took my first safari. After doing all the research, I settled on a Searcy 470 Deluxe boxlock. Since then, I have acquired other Searcy, Verney Carron and Chapuis doubles, and I love them all. I have gotten to know Butch Searcy and Ken Buch (Verney Carron) pretty well, and both provide outstanding customer service. Butch is having back surgery on Friday and will be out of commission for at least a couple of weeks. He is also scaling back on building rifles in the field grade category and concentrating more on best quality doubles. Verney Carron seems to bring out new models every year. Their round action from last year and their "English double" this year were both very attractive pieces, and as I recall, you can still get a made to order round action with modest engraving and nice wood in the $15K range. So, my suggestion would be to take a look at the Searcy and Verney Carron doubles, see which one you like best, and go from there. The Verney Carron will probably be delivered sooner as Butch always seems to have a backlog of orders, but then again, a Searcy is all American made, and that has an appeal all its' own. Good luck!

I'd look for a previously owned double rifle from Heym, Searcy, Chapuis, Krieghof.. .
If it were me, I'd find a Modern Double. Parts, warranty, modern metallurgy. Damn near shoot whatever will regulate in the rifle!

You don't have to wait and bear the initial expense of a "new" rifle. Find one you like at a price you can afford and go for it.

I'd stay away from the "vintage" English double rifle, unless you are garner enough knowledge and be patient enough to find a "beauty". The "vintage market" is a "dragon's tooth tank trap" for the uninitiated.
If you pursue that path you need people like JJ Parodeau at Champlins, MacD37, Cal Pappas, 400 Nitro Express, Mike Jines and others of this forum who know what to look for in a rifle.

Bottom line, The double rifle you like, can afford and shoot accurately, that is the "Best Double Rifle in the World"!

I would suggest a Heym 88b with case colors in 450NE. Regulated with Hornady ammo for convenience, well made, attractive, and you won't feel guilty using it.

I don't collect rifles, I buy them for a purpose. That purpose is hunting. They are tools, and for some hunting a DR is the best tool. I like nice tools, so I like nice DR's, and I have a couple of them.

If Hornaday had loaded NE ammo when I was looking for my first DR, intended for African DG, and Heym USA was where it is today, I would have gone with a Heym 88b or sidelock, with case colors, in 450NE!

When it is time for my son to graduate to a DR, if that is what works best for him, I will be looking for a Heym (unfortunately for the both of us, and especially for my wallet, he is righty and I am lefty, and my rifles don't work for him.)

JPK

Check out the auctions, Julia, Amoskeag, Holts, Rock Island, Bonhams, etc.

If one can afford $100,000, then a new Holland & Holland Round Body in a .470 would be my first choice. This a real elegant and well balanced double rifle. Last time I looked, the New York store had one available.

In the same price range would be a David McKay Brown Round Action. Great custom rifle builder, and a nice man who is the best when it comes to a Scottish true round action, not a round body.

After that, it all comes to personal preferences in how a gun feels to you. I really like the balance of the Heym, although I have always thought they are overpriced. I also like the Merkel Sidelocks because they feel like a fine shotgun to me, and that's important to me, and one can be found for around $20-$25K new. Verney Caron also makes a nice round body gun I like (never shot it).

A used Holland or Westley Richards or Rigby or Lancaster is always an option as well. Used guns need to be thoroughly vetted by a gunsmith who knows double rifles as there are some ducks out there on the market.

There are going to be a lot of opinions on this forum about what they prefer. Read and absorb, but in the end it's up to what you like, how much you want to spend, and how that rifle feels in your hands.

Most important are 3 things: 1) Well regulated 2) Fits you 3) Feels good in your hands. Follow those simple rules and you won't go wrong.

THERE ARE A LOT OF GOOD SUGGESTIONS HERE. I WAS IN THE SAME POSITION AS YOU AND CHOSE A MERKEL AS A WORKING DOUBLE. I HAVE TAKEN TWO BULL ELEPHANTS AND A BUFFALO WITH IT AND IT NOW HAS TO MANY GOOD MEMORIES TO MAKE A CHANGE EVEN IF I WANTED TO. IT HAS PROVEN TO BE A DEPENDABLE AND ACCURATE RIFLE!
MARK

quote:

I would suggest a Heym 88b with case colors in 450NE. Regulated with Hornady ammo for convenience, well made, attractive, and you won't feel guilty using it.

I don't collect rifles, I buy them for a purpose. That purpose is hunting. They are tools, and for some hunting a DR is the best tool. I like nice tools, so I like nice DR's, and I have a couple of them.

If Hornaday had loaded NE ammo when I was looking for my first DR, intended for African DG, and Heym USA was where it is today, I would have gone with a Heym 88b or sidelock, with case colors, in 450NE!

When it is time for my son to graduate to a DR, if that is what works best for him, I will be looking for a Heym (unfortunately for the both of us, and especially for my wallet, he is righty and I am lefty, and my rifles don't work for him.)

Good advice
Buy a good working double and go kill as many Elephants and Buff as you can for the rest of the money.

That expensive rifle sitting in the safe is only going to piss you off when you think of all the great hunting you could have done for the same money.

And yes, the argument still stands if you can "afford to have both", go find yourself a 100lbs Elephant, a 50" Buffalo and hunt in th best concessions the world has left.

That will enrich your life far more than a rifle that your kids may not appreciate when you are gone.
Enjoy your hunt

I always purchased and hunted with English doubles because I love them. However, there is something to be said for a Heym, VC, Merkel, etc... A great way to get into the game and save for a trip and that makes sense if aesthetics is not one of your primary reasons for a purchase.

Dutch

Best value in English guns to my mind is a good vintage double that has been renovated in the English trade. The dollars you spend should really just be converted rather than spent if you know what I mean.

Try talking to Diggory at vintageguns.co.uk. He is a good freind and we work together as most people know but he specialises in these sort of projects.

K