I am considering having a low powered (1-6x)30 mm compact scope mounted on a S689E Beretta Gold Sable O/U as low as possible for a good solid check weld, preferably with a claw mount.

I have been told that, unlike the usual European elevated height, claw mounts can permit as low or lower scope heights than the usual quick detachable European mounting alternatives.

Any experience here with low claw mounted scopes on any type of double rifle, O/U or S/S? Photos would be much appreciated.

I'm with you on the claw mounts, it's by far my favorite mounting system and works perfectly!

Here's two examples,





DM

DM:

Very nice. Who did them?

Rem

DM

Thanks very much for the pictures. The upper picture, without an enlarged scope objective, is similar to the configuration I would like.

My incomplete knowledge of claw mount operation says that when the hooks of the rear ring are released from its base, the scope pivots about the front base until the front ring is also free. How much rotation, in approximate degrees, occurs before front ring is free and the scope can be completely lifted off the rifle? Is the effective pivot axis the contact line between the forward edge of the front ring lower surface and the upper base surface?

I want to be sure that interference between the front, objective, end of the scope and an existing fixed open sight forward of the front base does not occur. If necessary, the open sight could be removed, but I would like to retain it, if possible.

I will obviously discuss all this with the gunsmith who will do the installation, but would like to be as prepared as possible beforehand.

The Talley mounts will get your scope lower, and they don't need the scope to pivot for release.
They're also very clean looking on the rifle, and they're much less expensive to buy and install.



Cheers
Tinker

I would advise not using dave talley mounts if you have a side by side. I used his quick detach system and the lever will hit the barrels, not allowing you to detach the mount from the base.

Regards,

Carpediem

Another vote for the Sühler claw mounts. I've been using them for years on my 9,3x74R FN O/U.

I would vote for the German Recknagel or EAW type pivot rings/bases. Cheaper (much), easier for gunsmiths in the US to install (little or no hand fitting), more flexibility if you change or add a 2nd scopes latter. If you break or wear out a part they can be easily fixed, always return to zero, can be mounted just as low as a claw mount, and I feel they are just as fast to remove and replace the scope.

+1 on the Recknagel mounts....a low and solid hook-up.

quote:

Originally posted by Remington40x:
DM:

Very nice. Who did them?

Rem

The first one was done in Germany, the second with the Zeiss was done by JJ.

Here's how they go on: First hook the claw into the mount,



Rotate the back of the scope down,



Until it "clicks",



After having "claw" mounts, i absolutely hated the "swing" mounts i had, and they are long gone!

DM

DM

Thanks very much for the latest set of pictures. They make it possible for me to understand exactly how claw mounts function and to determine necessary scope height vs. forward ring location.

quote:

i absolutely hated the "swing" mounts i had

Why? I have had lots of both types and much prefer the pivot type.

Just had a visit with a gunsmith from NECG watched him install a claw mount on a cape gun

quote:

Originally posted by Kebco:

quote:

i absolutely hated the "swing" mounts i had

Why? I have had lots of both types and much prefer the pivot type.

The motion to push the foot into the hole "level", then rotate the whole thing keeping everything in the proper position, then having to rotate the locking ring to lock it all in place is just plain harder to do and MUCH slower. A person would have to practice a lot to even come close to being as fast with a swing mount compared to a claw.

I many times don't carry my gun scoped, and if a long shot presents itself, i put the scope on and take the shot. With a claw, it's ONE fast smooth action that's VERY easy to do right or left handed.

NO comparison!

DM

I think this will boil down to what you prefer.

EAW and Recknagel still make both systems so there is still a demand for both.

I have both but prefer the pivot type. It is just as strong and much more convenient if you want or need to change scopes. It seems to me that scope size and lever/bolt access have more control over how low I can mount my scope than the actual mounts. I can see where the claws are much faster if that is a requirement. What I dislike about the claw mounts is that you had better like the scope you have mounted on the gun because it will cost you big $$$ to get new claw mounts made if another scope does not fit the old claws/rings. Also, forget about moving it from one gun to another. Chances are, the claws mounts will only fit the original firearm.

I have a combo gun and a drilling that have claw mounts and older zeiss 1.5 x 6 rail mount scopes. The scopes were the top of the line in their day but leave a lot to be desired now. The claw mounts are not the same height because the front is attached to the scope rail under the bell (not straight tube scopes). Finding a good rail mount scope that my claw mounts will work with would be the proverbial "needle in the haystack". I think my best option is to get new claw mounts (rings) made for a common size scope. I have chosen a straight bell 1" tube scope for the combo and a straight bell 30mm scope for the drilling.

The only reputable people I know of that work on claw mounts are JJ of Champlin and NECG (8-12 months backlog right now with NECG). They are nice guns and new claw mounts are a big investment, but I think doing it this way will leave me with options in the future if I decide to change out the scopes. Any other thoughts or ideas?

Thanks........Larry

I have the pivot type from Recknagel on my 9.3X74R SxS Chapuis double and find them to be great. I can take the scope off or put in on in about 3 seconds. How much faster do I need to be than that?

I'm thinking that if 3 seconds is too much time before losing the shot, it's probably best to lose the shot.

Claw mounts "installed" cost me LESS than double the $350.00 the swings cost me. I like them easily enough more to pay the difference.

Anyone who can install a swing in 3 sec., has a LOT of practise, i could never do it and i had them for years. Any "newbie" can put a claw on in 3 sec...

Like JJ told me, people go to swings because they cost less, not because they are better, and i agree. But, "I" am willing to pay a little more to get what works easier/better for me.

DM

I have the Talley system on my Searcy and there are no problems with the levers hitting the barrels. That doesn't happen. You obviously have to take the time to unscrew them though. That takes all of about two seconds. It's that quick to undo the levers and another second or two to remove the scope. I tried it yesterday. The scope height appears about the same as pictured above. Not much difference.

The claw mounts are something I like the look of, but the Talley certainly works well. Just slide the scope on and off and you know it's not going anywhere no matter the recoil (I just read in the NRA mag an article about the 505 Gibbs and in test firing the scope went flying and hit the writer on the forehead, but they didn't mention which mounts).

I believe this is largely a matter of which look in mounts you like better.

quote:

Originally posted by DM:
Claw mounts "installed" cost me LESS than double the $350.00 the swings cost me. I like them easily enough more to pay the difference.

Anyone who can install a swing in 3 sec., has a LOT of practise, i could never do it and i had them for years. Any "newbie" can put a claw on in 3 sec...

DM

Ok, well ... maybe 4 seconds!

Thanks for the comments and information from everyone.

As a result of all your input, I am inclined to proceed with the choice of claw mounts. I will not make a final decision until I bring the rifle and scope to NECG in a few weeks and discuss it in person with gunsmith who will do the installation.

I have the claw mounts on 1 O/U 375 H&H Josef winkler; 1 470NE searcy sxs; 1 josef winkler 20ga over 244rem and q 16ga over 8x57 jrs love the mounts pivoting off the gun is no problem. I also have another searcy 470NE with the talley ind the are low enough and come off easy I have no trouble tightening the the clamps. If the clamping bars-handles get near barrel you just pull them laterally their spring loaded and you can move the levers to level or horizontal and they never touch the barrel

For me it has nothing to do with the difference in cost of claw vs. swing mounts, it has EVERYTHING to do with ability to tailor the scope to the job.
Claws limit you to a specific bell diameter if you want to switch scopes. Swings allow you to switch scopes to anything you want without refitting AND you can get multiple sets of rings of different heights and tube diameters (30mm and 1") and fit the scope(s) yourself.
I agree that claw mounts are a bit quicker. If the game is at such distance that one needs a scope, that extra second probably makes little difference.
But, ya gotta use what you like and what you have faith in.

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
For me it has nothing to do with the difference in cost of claw vs. swing mounts, it has EVERYTHING to do with ability to tailor the scope to the job.
Claws limit you to a specific bell diameter if you want to switch scopes. Swings allow you to switch scopes to anything you want without refitting AND you can get multiple sets of rings of different heights and tube diameters (30mm and 1") and fit the scope(s) yourself.
I agree that claw mounts are a bit quicker. If the game is at such distance that one needs a scope, that extra second probably makes little difference.
But, ya gotta use what you like and what you have faith in.

Agree with all Doc. However, I had my son time me putting the pivot mounted Trijicon on my Chapuis. On in 1.87 seconds. Off in 2.1. So yeah, how much faster does it need to be? Again, speed isn't the issue here. Preference is.

Claw mounts can be low or high. NEGC has low ones for scopes with small objectives (all that is needed) or you can run across treasures like my bringback FN with a fat Zeiss in mounts so high your face is off the comb !