Almost 2 years ago I sent a J.P. Sauer 12ga SxS out to have it converted to a 450/400 NE 3" DR. I did so after having seen some work by the 'smith and discussing my desires. Even went so far as to document what my desires were and what had been discussed over the phone.

15 months went by and I received the conversion back. During the 15 months communication was pretty much one-sided - me sending emails often without replies, or at best one-liners as a reply.

Upon receipt I inspected the conversion. To say I was disappointed is an understatement.

I had asked that the finished DR conversion weigh in the 9 1/2lb range; I got a 10 1/2 lb gun.

The caliber had not been stamped or engraved anywhere on the gun.

Where the new barrels mated to the mono-block there was originally some lettering. After the mating of the new barrels and finishing of the joint, half of the old lettering remained. (This was not the case with DRs that I had seen built by the same 'smith.

The solder joints on either side of the rib do not appear to have been scraped, and are unsightly.

The front sight was pinned in with a roll pin, in lieu of the spring and plunger common to this type of sight (NECG).

At least one barrel (left) appears not to have been prepped well before bluing. There is bluing over an obvious rust spot on the barrel.

When I went to fire the gun, I was only able to fire 4 rnds of factory Hornady 450/400 NE 3", 400gr DGX loads. The gun would simply not close and/or lock up on the remainder of the ammo (and unprimed, factory new brass I have.) This turned out to be an issue with the chamber reaming. The rim cut was .006-008" shallow. When I did get a hold of the 'smith and explained this to him he said the brass/loads he used had a rim thickness of .052-.055" thickness. All of my brass/loads have/had a rim thickness of .058-.062". SAAMI/CIP spec for the rim thickness is .065". The 'smith was kind enough to send his reamer to me and I hand reamed the chambers to spec. and ensured that all of my brass/loads would chamber and the gun lock up completely.

Since returning the reamer, I have not heard from the 'smith. Given the issue with brass, I have my doubts as to how well this DR conversion is regulated. Given the 'arctic blast' that continues to present itself in the Midwest, I have not had the opportunity to shoot the gun to evaluate the regulation myself.

This brings me to my question. Who would you recommend I send this conversion out to (other than the original 'smith, whom I hesitatate to deal with again) to have the lettering removed (draw files out), have the solder joints scraped, correct the front sight issue, verify the regulation, and refinish the gun? I know that it still will not meet my 9 1/2lb criteria, but . . .

Lastly, what would be your thoughts on potentially having the 450/400 NE rebored and rechambered to 450 NE? Could it even be done? I could live with a 10 plus lb 450 NE.

Man been there and been through that and then some.

I think you my be hard pressed to find another smith who would be willing to touch some other smith's problem gun especially when it comes to conversion DR's. Is this guy close enough so you can drive over and talk with him to specifically point out the issues? I take it the smith in question has received payment in full for the services rendered? With the questionable work done thus far do you really feel safe having it re-chambered to 450 NE?

I hope things work out for you. I wouldn't wish this type of dilemma on anyone.

Eric

I can think of two that would finish this correctly w/o gouging you. I'll PM some info.

Unfortunately the original 'smith is not 'close enough to drive over and talk with him . . . " Pretty much a days drive in either direction.

The one fortunate thing about this 'fiasco' is that the 'smith has not received payment in full, and at this point I could care less. (Correction - I do care, I would gladly remit the balance if I was assured that the re-work would be done properly and timely. Not about to have the gun gone for another year with minimal communication or status updates.) I have the gun, and he does not respond to emails or voice mails. I suspect that the balance I owe him is pretty close to what it will/would cost to make things right.

At this point I might have better off with a 'dremeled' Sabatti !

Pictures and a name would be interesting...

I'm traveling right now and don't have pics on this laptop. I'll post them when I get back.

As I mentioned in a PM to another poster, I will not publicly name the 'smith in question. He's not a contributor here and therefore cannot 'defend' himself.

I'd question a smith who would try to convert a shotgun to a double rifle -- I know there is at least one very well-known exception.

Take a day... Find other stuff to do in the area AFTER you drop off your rifle. Get the smith's mind right (try not to choke him) ... Go over every detail needing redone and have HIM get it back to you??????

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I'd question a smith who would try to convert a shotgun to a double rifle -- I know there is at least one very well-known exception.

More than a few have followed in this man's footsteps. . . .Ellis Brown Book

quote:

Originally posted by FLGrizzy:
Take a day... Find other stuff to do in the area AFTER you drop off your rifle. Get the smith's mind right (try not to choke him) ... Go over every detail needing redone and have HIM get it back to you??????

Believe me, that thought crossed my mind. Given that I have not been able to connect with him, I'm wondering if he pulled up his stakes and has moved elsewhere.

Try to contact H2Oboy here and see what he has to say. I heard from a trusted maker that he knows....

What pagosawingnut said...H2o boy "Dirk" is one hell of a smith...knows what he is doing...I don't know if he can fix your "mess" but he can guide you in the right direction.

Ed

I'll drop him a PM and see if he might be able to point me in the right direction, or potentially take on the fix."

quote:

Originally posted by 2Barrels:

quote:

Originally posted by FLGrizzy:
Take a day... Find other stuff to do in the area AFTER you drop off your rifle. Get the smith's mind right (try not to choke him) ... Go over every detail needing redone and have HIM get it back to you??????

Believe me, that thought crossed my mind. Given that I have not been able to connect with him, I'm wondering if he pulled up his stakes and has moved elsewhere.

THAT WOULD REALLY SUCK IF HE DID !!!!!

Reference photos . . .

It actually doesn't look like all that much work to polish and refinish the gun as long as it is mechanically sound (sounds like there may be some issues there, as well).

I wouldn't give up on the project but I would sure as hell give up on the smith that built it. If it's just metal prep that needs to be finished, there are a bunch of competent guy's out there to do that kind of work.

Can you post a pic of the full gun and what make did it start our as?

Had to dig and remember where I stashed these photos. I'll have to see if there is a photo of the whole gun somewhere.

The entire conversion started out on a J.P. Sauer & Sohn 12ga SxS shotgun.

Not as bad as I feared, just needs better prep work before rust bluing. He should have taken a few more hours in doing that. I was expecting it to look like that abortion that a guy got last year; total hack job. Yours will be easy to finish off. As long as it is mechanically built right; the chamber part is easy to fix too. The maker needs it back to do it right. Or, if you didn't pay him, finish it yourself.
Oh, the setscrew on the front sight is ok; others are done that way.

I think everyone here is spot on and I agree with them. I think he needed more prep time and more elbow grease for this to be properly finished.

Like others, I thought about the post from last year and feared this one would be in the same category but it is nowhere near that bad.

In my opinion, the work you need completed could be done by many gunsmiths who have experience in working with metal finishes and removing solder.

Matt

2Barrels,

That isn't as bad as I had imagined. As several folks have said there are smiths out there to take care of your work. I guess I was a bit of an alarmist and should have waited for pics.

I would like to see some photos when all is said and done and of course targets too.

Eric

I'd like to thank all of you that have provided input and guidance, whether it be thru a post in this thread or via PM.

By no means did I intend to be an 'alarmist' based upon my description of the issues. Photos are worth a 1000 words, and in this case may have tempered my original description(s) or problem areas/issues.

I think I'm on my way to getting these problems solved as a result of your input. The question that remains and can only be answered by ME, is whether I want to proceed with just the cosmetic corrections, or go the 'whole nine yards' and address the weight/balance issue. I've had input from several and know the cost(s). In all likelihood I'll go the whole nine yards and get what I wanted in the first place. Not doing so will always lead me to look back and say "I wish I'd . . . . "