Hi All ,this might be an old question but I am looking to sell my custom 500 Jeffery and go back to a double. I've owned a 470NE in the past but now I am not sure if i should get another one or get a 500NE?Although I might not be going to Africa hunting every year and when I do its more likely to be buff than elephant seeing as the bloody idiots here in Australia will not let us import them I still hope to one day. I am just not sure which calibre to get? what are your thoughts

Now that factory ammo and new cases are around every stump in Texas, it would probably not matter in the USA, but in Australia? It may be the same situation.

No doubt the 500 would lay anything flatter faster than a 470, but I could never warm up to the recoil abuse.

but surely it wouldn't have any more recoil that my 500 Jeffery and thats cool to shoot at things but not so good shooting paper

True enough.

I think the incremental difference in recoil between a .470 and .500 is de minimus compared to the substantial advantage in knock down power with the .500. To me, the .500 wins the "which one" battle between the .470 and the .500.

500 NE, for sure

+1

I like both my 470 and 500 and would say that the 470 kicks just as much as the 500 and I think the 500 is more pleasent to shoot. The one advantage to the 470 is the ammo is more likely to be available if you lose yours on the flight over. Most people leave left over ammo with their PH's for camp ammo, I know I do. Its a hard choice but either gun is fine. I found factory 500 Kynoch ammo to be below 2000 fps in my guns. 470 is usually right at the 2150 fps range. I have yet to shoot anything big with my 500 so I can't compare the two. I know the 470 hammers anything you hit with it properly.

Sam

Hello,

I have both, depending on the gun the recoil can be substantially different.
I think 470 ammo is more available internationally, since Federal started loading it awhile back.
I also feel the 470's legs can be streached a little easier if you need to take a longer shot, say 100 ~ 125 yds but no longer unless you are well practiced at long shots with your gun and load combo.

I say the 470.

Nitro

500 NE

Have a question. Assume you have doubles that fit you properly and the 500 weighs 1 - 1.5 pound more than the 470.
How much more is the recoil from the 500?

I am not sure someone could tell the difference if they did not know which one they were shooting. The felt recoil difference between a 10 pound .470 and an 11-11.5 pound .500 is not going to be much. IMHO.

I just plugged some numbers into a recoil calculator. I used 570 grain bullet, 2100 fps, 99 grains of powder and 11.5 pound rifle for the .500. For the .470 I used 500 grain bullet, 2150 fps, 88 grains of powder and a 10 pound rifle. Recoil Impulse was (.500/.470) 7.07/6.33 lbs/second, Recoil Velocity in fps was 19.79/20.29 and Recoil Energy in ft/lbs was 69.93/64.53. Not much difference according to the calculator.

The cut of the stock will do much to help with recoil. I have noticed a reduction in recoil because of a 1/8th inch greater lop and 1/8 inch greater cast-off in two different .450 NE's. That being said, my .500 NE is 11 lbs. 12 oz. with recoil a little more noticeable than my 11 lb. 13 ounce .450 NE. However, put it in perspective as MJines states with a 10 lb. .470 and you will not notice a difference. I have shot a friends 10 lb. Chapuis .470 and don't care to again. Poor stock fit and a pound too light for my taste. All considered I'll stick to my .500NE.

Dutch

Comparisons between 10-10.5lb .470s and 11-11.5lb .500s are fine, but is it for hunting or just shooting for fun? At this level of recoil (and cost) it should be a given that the stock is made to fit perfectly. If it is for hunting, do you want to carry an extra lb of rifle weight through the bush/jess all day? If not, the real comparison is whether you can handle the recoil from a 10-10.5lb .500 - if yes then pick the .500; if not then the .470 (or .450)

I like my Heavy rifles to weigh no more than 10.5lbs and would think the recoil of a .500 (doing 2100fps) would be too much for me.
As you know , I went the 470.

I really, really like my Searcy 470 NE DR. A 500 DR is going (or should) weigh about a pound and a half more.

That said, MJines' logic is hard to beat.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I really, really like my Searcy 470 NE DR. A 500 DR is going (or should) weigh about a pound and a half more.

That said, MJines' logic is hard to beat.

Rich
DRSS

I agree. My .470NE weighs 9 lbs 14 oz and is a pussycat, my buddy's 10 lb .500NE is a brute. I really, really like the .470NE cartridge, to me it's a very shootable and pleasant cartridge.

If you have already had a 500[jeff] ,buy a 500 ,if you buy a 470 then you will wish you bought the 500 .For me it would be a Searcy PH after that a Merkel then a Sabatti .You only live once !! buy a 500 , all the 400s are 500 wantabes !

good point tankhunter and thanks to all. I might need to go a shoot a couple to help make up my mind.In the mean time going to order that verney-carron U&O 450-400 to shoot the shit out a heap of wild pigs

Definately .500NE,Imho .470 = .458 win mag,and hardly anyone wants to use or recommend the.458 win mag.I use a .500NE Heym PH model 10.5 lb and am very happy with it,recoil is not much more than the .470 but performance a lot better.
Buffalo don't like being shot with a .500..

I'm hearing you mbuyu loved shooting my two with the 500 Jeffery but want to do it with a double and funds don't allow me to have both

The final determinant should be the effect on the DGR game shot; not the rifle weight, recoil, ammo availability or cost.

Your life may depend on the effect of your bullet; anything > 0.5cal wins every time, especially in a ''stopping'' rifle!

I own a .470 and while I have not owned a .500, I have shot a number of different makes in that caliber. To me anyway, the .500 represents a substantial step up in recoil. I would go with the .470. Just my two cents.

Hello Zahaba:
You stated previously that you will be be hunting bufflo for the most part and not so much elephant. The thing are you going to be shooting this rifle a lott on the range? how many hours and how many miles/hunting days you think will be carrying a rifle weighting from 1Lb to 1.5Lb more than the other? How quick and effecient do you think you will be handeling one versses the other? what about the Ammo availability? believe me I had to ask my self all these Questions and them some before I finalized my dission and picked the 470.
Oregionaly I had made up my mind a long time ago that I was going to buy 500 when the time came for me to buy a double rifle. I had reasd a lot about the subject, studied the energy figures the penetration endex, the shock endex, etc. I must admit that he 500 have the edge. but when it came to being practical the 470 won.
1st the loadings for the 500 by Hornady and Norma are 2100 ft/se for the 570g bullet. on the other hand the 470 is loaded By Hornady to 2150 ft/se and that is the ammo that the rifle I bought is regulated with. I am goiung to be carrying that rifle a lot when I am hunting and I prefer the lighter rifle. I will be shooting the rifle and practicing from all shooting positions with it a lot and I want to enjoy it while I am at ti and feel the trepedation or the cringing from the extra recoil and beleive me I am not recoil shy person, I benched my 458 WM and shoot top heavy bullet loads in my 454 Casull and a lot of them at a setion. also if you are a hand loader you can make that 470 pretty close to the 500 using the apropriate bullet and Maplet shape and allow that bullet to diliver the most shock posible especialy in solids, Federal hot loads the 470 and their loads could exceed the 2200 ft/se with no noticeable effect on the regulation of the rifles or pressure. that what I read in many posts at other forums.
Those are few of the points that caused me to change my mind and pick out the 470.
At any rate rate I hope this will help sorting things out for you.

Good luck and God's speed

Malek :

quote:

Originally posted by PD999:
The final determinant should be the effect on the DGR game shot; not the rifle weight, recoil, ammo availability or cost.

Your life may depend on the effect of your bullet; anything > 0.5cal wins every time, especially in a ''stopping'' rifle!

The effect is the same - put the bullet in the right place, the animal will die.

The 500 just does it with a bit more authority.


In reagrds to "stopping", put the right bullet in the right spot and
you will stop the charge. The 500 will only give you the edge if you
are slightly off and the shock of it will have more effect.

However, how many times is he seriously going to be in this situation
where it is going to work like that. Probably not many if any.

.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
The effect is the same - put the bullet in the right place, the animal will die.

The 500 just does it with a bit more authority.


In reagrds to "stopping", put the right bullet in the right spot and
you will stop the charge. The 500 will only give you the edge if you
are slightly off and the shock of it will have more effect.

However, how many times is he seriously going to be in this situation
where it is going to work like that. Probably not many if any.

The problem is that sometimes the bullet is not in the right place. A misplaced shot with a 9.3x62 is going to have far less of an impact than a misplaced shot with a .500. The bigger calibers in my view are not designed for the shots in the right place, but for the shots in the wrong place where you need every advantage you can to avoid a problem.

As for how many times is this relevant, it only takes once. For me it happened in December 2009. We shot a cow in a charge three times, twice with the .500 and once with a .416 Rigby. None of the shots were in the right place. That said, the impact was enough to send the cow tumbling and break the charge. That is what a .500 is all about.

Mike

I don't disagree.

Funny thing is, for an Anglophile, English Double Rifle lover, in my life, the 3 serious charges I have had I've had a Ruger 338 Win Mag in my hand.

1 was turned (I hit here in the neck), one I brained at 8 yards and can't remember the other.

The diff between 9.3 and 500, yes, but the diff between 470 and 500, not a huge amount at stopping ranges. I think you would see the same effect.

.

If that was the case, why do you see more PHs going to bigger and bigger bore doubles. They must believe that you are gaining something more than just recoil and weight in jumping from a .470 to a .500 or .577. Bottom line, everyone should carry what they are comfortable with. With a .500 I will not be spending a lot of time wondering at 20 paces if my rifle is adequate. If someone else can have that same inner peace with a smaller caliber, God bless them . . . and keep them.

I think the inner peace is a moot feeling.NO matter 458 470 500 577 600 will it stop them most of the time of course but is there still a margin of error of course will you be presented with the same shot to stop an animal time and time again NO

I've come to the conclusion that to be able to wield a rifle fast and true,thus having more ability to put the shot in the right place. A rifle in the 9.5 to 10.5lbs range is my maximum preferred weight.
A good example is to swing a shotgun then a heavy but well balanced Double rifle (no contest for me as I'm no giant). Then do it after a 15klms walk in hot and rugged conditions.
My decision was between a 10lbs 450NE and a 10.5lbs 470.

another reality is the difference between what a 470 & 500 are suppose to be & what they are.

the nominal vel. of a 500 gr. 470 bullet is 2150 fps, as is the vel. for the 570 gr. bullet for the 500.

unless the 500 is loaded to it's nominal vel. to get 5800 ft-lb is it really a 500 or a 47-70 in disguise?

My vote is for the .500. You already have a rifle that from my experience has more recoil than the .500 N.E. in your 500 Jeffery. My .500 is the 3 1/4" version and it weighs 10.5 lbs. My load is 115 grns of IMR 4831 so some one out there with the software could probably figure out the recoil. It is a hand full but it does not hurt which is the imporant thing.

you just knew a guy with the nickname Double-D would go for the bigger one(s).

Can we call you 50 DD?

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

the nominal vel. of a 500 gr. 470 bullet is 2150 fps, as is the vel. for the 570 gr. bullet for the 500.

Will, just a thought. The "new" nominal velocity for the .470 is indeed 2150 fps. The original Kynoch loading was also in that neighborhood but that velocity was from a 31 inch barrel. In the real world, the .470 was actually running about 2000 fps and an awful lot of game was taken with the .470 at that velocity.

Ozhunter:
I guess the 470 won.
By the way that is a nice rifle and a nice buff.

Dave bush:
Hornady today are loading their ammo to 2150 ft/se for the 470 out of a 24” tube and Sabatti rifles are regulating theirs with the Hornady ammo. Federal is loading their ammo a little hotter than that, again that what I read on some other forums. Few people have experianced that in their rifles.

good shooting/hunting and God,s speed.

Malek

My vote is for the .500. You already have a rifle that from my experience has more recoil than the .500 N.E. in your 500 Jeffery. My .500 is the 3 1/4" version and it weighs 10.5 lbs. My load is 115 grns of IMR 4831 so some one out there with the software could probably figure out the recoil. It is a hand full but it does not hurt which is the imporant thing.

Double-D:
what kind of vilocity are you getting and how long are your barrles?

Malek

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
you just knew a guy with the nickname Double-D would go for the bigger one(s).

Can we call you 50 DD?

Rich

Good one, Rich!