Guys, can any of you give some information on the Blaser S2 double rifle? I have looked at the photos on the internet but I am not sure I really grasp how they work. There is a .470 for sale on the Guns America site. The photos show the "tilting lock block." How does that work? On the Blaser site they suggest that calibers are interchangable. The pictures seem to suggest that Blaser uses barrel inserts much like interchangeable tubes is a skeet gun. Is that correct? Is $10,000 a good price? Does anyone have one and how do you like it?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Dave

Dave,

I'm far from the expert on this but I'll start. First the S2 is more like 2 Merkle single shots or 2 blaser K95 singles ajoined than a trad. double. It is a very strong action.Withstanding more pressure than a conventional double. There are 2 different models. The S2 safari and the S2 Standard. The Safari have a wedge where the rear site is and "collets" at the end of the barrel. I will not get into regulation on this because I dont have one yet. Aleko at Heritage Arms can explain it better.

The Standard caliber S2 uses one barrel in a embedded in a support bore and you ajust that barrel to shoot with the other.

I tell you they are not traditional doubles, but they shoot. I've seen groups that will give a bolt gun a run for there money. I will own one in the near future. It will be a LH 500-416 and that is what I'll hunt with. I love the feel of my douglass and I'd like a trim 450/400 3" one of these days, but I've seen a S2 with about 3,000 rounds thru it that will shoot rings around my douglass, and it has not been sent in to be "tuned up" since he bought it, try that with a trad. double. Durable,accurate some may them call them ugly, but I think they look like the perfect hunting rifle.

I would like to see the gun stay cocked after you open it like a Kreighoff, but I can adapt.

10,000 is a good price for a super luxus, but I dont know about a luxus. Look around and talk to some blaser dealers. They are a nice bunch.

Ed

What Ed said!

Check out www.BlaserPro.com, several members have S2's and other big name doubles. They can help you understand them a bit better.

No substitute for handling one however, good luck!

Dave,

I have just bought a 9.3 x 74R version so I may be able to help you. As allready stated, there are 2 versions: the "regular" and the Safari.
The Safari is only available in .375 calibre and up. The "regular" is for the smaller cartridges and 1 barrel can be regulated with screws at the muzzle.

The barrels of my gun (regular) are sleeved to achieve a free floating effect (I think they are only held at the muzzle and at the chamber end).
Changing calibers means changing barrel sets. Because of the design, a new set should drop right in (or with minimal gunsmithing).

I cannot comment on the price, but I can tell you that a Super Luxus will have fabulous wood. Blaser has some very nice wood, much better than other companies in the same price range.

Yesterday I tried some different ammo and the results were very surprising. My first tests with RWS were not that good, but yesterday RWS T-mantel, RWS UNI classic and Hirtenberger all grouped very well. Different bullets, different weights, ... and they all grouped inside 3 inch at 50m (6 shots with iron sights). It should be even better when I scope it.

The decocking feature on them is a definite no-no for some people, but it doesn't bother me at all. Nothing that training won't overcome, but I have no experience with DG.
It hasn't got ejectors, and they are not available either. There is a hood above the chambers, which doesn't bother me when I have to reload. Again, I do not hunt DG and your opinion may differ.

The gun handles very well for me and it points as no other rifle I own. If I close my eyes, mount the rifle and open them again, the sights are perfectly alligned every time.

3" at 50 metres is dreadful accuracy.

the S2 is not a double rifle, it just happens to have 2 barrels

Well butchloc,

All I'm saying it is a new way to look at a double. I love tradition. I love the way a fine double is put together, but I have a friend that developes polmers, and some of the things that he has now are more durable than steel and hold up better with out rusting, and wear better. Kind of like a S2 the finish is more durable on the metal. You can shoot any type of bullet out of it. You can shoot "high pressure cart. out of it (375 and such). Its priced form 5K-25K (affordable). It's built for high volume shooting with out going back to be tighten and tuned.

To me it is a new way to "do" a double. Like it or not time changes things. Hell if we did'nt have computers, we would not be having this discussion.

Blaser builds a high quality product for hunting and shooting. They are not show stoppers they are game stoppers.

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by vigillinus:
3" at 50 metres is dreadful accuracy.

vigillinus

I agree but I have seen it numerous times where
a gun is said "not to shoot" and 2 other people pick it up and shoot it and it's fine.

I now put a lot of emphasis on who is actually doing the shooting as some owners just can't shoot a decent target yet out in the field they are spot on with the same gun.

Guys, thanks for your help. I am still not sure exactly how they work but I have much better idea from your comments and the pictures that I have been able to find. Captain Dave is right. I am just going to have to handle one. I found two at what seems like very good prices. There is a used .470 on the Guns America site for $7500 and a brand new .375 on the Impact Guns sight on a closeout special for $7000. I am assuming both guns are the "standard" and not the "Luxus" models...just plain hunting guns which is good.

Nitehawk, can you tell me a little more about how the extractors work or does it even have conventional extractors or some other system? I see that Blaser makes the S2 in all kinds of non-rimmed calibers. Would a belted case like the .375 H&H be a good choice in a Blaser?

Thanks again.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by vigillinus:
3" at 50 metres is dreadful accuracy.

Read his post again.

Three different loads with different bullet weights.

Six shots (presumably two of each) into three inches at 50 yards. Dreadful?

I don't think so.

quote:

Originally posted by 505ED:
Well butchloc,

All I'm saying it is a new way to look at a double. I love tradition. I love the way a fine double is put together, but I have a friend that developes polmers, and some of the things that he has now are more durable than steel and hold up better with out rusting, and wear better. Kind of like a S2 the finish is more durable on the metal. You can shoot any type of bullet out of it. You can shoot "high pressure cart. out of it (375 and such). Its priced form 5K-25K (affordable). It's built for high volume shooting with out going back to be tighten and tuned.

To me it is a new way to "do" a double. Like it or not time changes things. Hell if we did'nt have computers, we would not be having this discussion.

Blaser builds a high quality product for hunting and shooting. They are not show stoppers they are game stoppers.

Ed

ED, everything you said about the things that are good about the Blazer is true.
It is the way they are tied together that ruins the whole package. They're like a novelty store, there are all kinds of neat things but none well related to the others!

In chamberings made for non-dangerous game if you like the rifle, and are not bothered by some of it's drawbacks, then it is a worthwhile buy! If, however, you intend it for a dangerous game rifle, then you need to think a little more than the designers did. This thing was designed by a committee, without discussing it with each other!

The fact that it can handle high pressure rounds, is not plus in a double rifle, unless the rounds have a flanged case, and the hood over the chambers is aproblem waiting to happen, slowing down the already slow reloading. and getting the rifle ready to fire again. The fact that the rifle is safe because it is completely de-cocked till you are ready to shoot is not a real draw-back, but the fact that the rifle automaticlly puts it's self back in that state, every time the rifle is broken open for a re-load of chambers IS! This auto so-called safety, cannot be disconected, and the rifle must be manually re-cocked every time the rifle is opened. Here is where the rifle is different than the Krieghoff, which has a sililar system, but breaking the rifle on the Krieghoff, recocks the rifle, and it is ready to fire as soon as it is slammed shut. That is one difference between the two, that I'm talking about. The engineers of the krieghoff designed the rifle for HUNTING, and the system of safety, and the need for speed in a tight sittuation with a bull elephant, or speedy lion, were taken into consideration, and on the Blazer, the thought never entered the heads of those engineers what the true purpose of a double rifle is! To have a pair of single shot rifles mounted on a common stock, with no gadgits to interfere with the smooth opperation, of the rifle with as few movements as is posible, between fireing one barrel, and the second, and nothing between the recharging the barrels, a fireing the rifle two more times! The old Acronym "KISS" (keep It Simple Stupid) deffinately applies to this rifle!

As I said, when the rifle is meant to be used on deer, and maybe driven boar, or Bear over bait, it is fine, barring one last item. LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO HUNT WITH AN UGLY RIFLE! Even if it worked perfectly!

I dont agree Mac, some of the things you say are like Bigfoot (talked about but rarely seen,I do not have a ton of big game experence, but I will say, on slow reloads. I have a older friend of mine that can reload a TC contender damn near as fast as I work a conventional bolt. He practices a bunch! Same for the manaul decock. I have a few shotguns with auto safe on them. I find if I shoot them a bunch it is second nature. The only time I screw up is when I go back and forth between auto and manual.

Your right about the looks part, but durabilty of the finish and the action there are no comp. The blaser is stronger. The gent I mentioned eariler has a 375 in his S2 with about 3,000 rounds with out a extraction problem yet.

All I'm saying is practice makes perfect. If you know your rifle, the hood over the barrels, the auto saftey, or the ugly will not make a difference.

It just a new way to look at a double. I like to fly a super cub, but I have a friend that has a new DA40 it flies good too. Just different!!

505ED

505ED, could you check something for me? I know that on the Blaser web site they say that the Safari model weighs 5.3 kilograms. That is 11.68 pounds! That would be fine for a .500 NE but exceptionally heavy for a .375. What does your friend's .375 weigh if you know?

Dave

ED and Mac, I just wanted to pass on a couple more thoughts.

I think you guys have both made some excellent points. Mac, I am with ED on some of the things he has said. I don't see the S2 as "ugly." Like ED, I see it as innovative. The hood doesn't bother me and I think that the scope mount is very well thought out. Nothing stays the same. Someone always comes up with a way to build a better mouse trap. The S2 is probably stronger than a conventional double, every bit if not more reliable and perhaps more accurate. That being said ED, Mac makes and excellent point about the Blaser safety. The safety on a dangerous game gun should not reset itself after you have fired the first two shots. You can practice the heck out of something but sometimes all that practice goes right out the window in a panic situation. Having to take the safey off again after you have reloaded is just another chance for a cock up!

Now, if you will both pardon me, I have to eat a little crow. On another thread I suggested that Nitehawks choice of the 9,3X74R in his Blaser was not the best choice. I now think that Nitehawk's choice may have been a better one than I thought and maybe a better choice than the .375 H&H. First off, the 9,3 is a flanged cartridge and it operates at much lower pressures that the .375 H&H. Many hunters have hunted the length and breath of Africa with a flanged .375 H&H. If you check the Kynoch web site you will see that they are loading the flanged .375 with a 300 grain bullet to 2425 fps but that is out of a 28 inch barrel. In reality, out of a the 24 inch barrel, it is probably making less than 2400 fps. Within the ranges at which dangerous game is generally taken, I sincerely doubt that your cape buffalo would know the difference between a 300 grain .375 bullet at 2400 fps or a 286 grain .366 bullet at 2360 fps. I have long believed that my 9,3X62 mauser would perform just as well as my .375 H&H within a hundred yards or so. I know this to be true because the 9,3X62 mauser was used by most of the farmers in Africa up until WWII to take everything from dik dik to lions and buffalo.

However,the best thing about Nitehawks choice is the gun weight. In a 9,3X74R, the S2 weighs in at 3,5 kilograms or 7.7 pounds. Even if you put a saddle mount and scope on it, it probably still comes in under nine pounds which makes it a lot more portable than the .375. Once again ED, I would greatly appreciate it if you could have your buddy actually put his .375 on a scale to find out what it weighs.

Dave

DAVE, Points taken!

quote:

Nothing stays the same. Someone always comes up with a way to build a better mouse trap.

That is true, but a lot of things change that are not better mouse traps, and IMO, the Blazer is one that falls into that catagory!

Mac that is why I like this board. You sometimes get both sides of the fence.

Mac has good points, and I'm kind of the devils advocate on this. I own traditional doubles and love the way they feel. I'd love to have a H&H Royal in a 500/465, but alas it is not in the cards for ol Ed, but I'm willing to take my chances with a 500/416 in a S2 to play around with. Maybe when I'm facing down a elephant or buff I'll feel different.

Dave the safari guns are heavy. I would say the 375 is about 11lbs. Its heavy. the 500/416 feels abit lighter. They have a kick stop in the butt you can take out to take about 3/4 lb of a pound out of it, but it makes it a little muzzle heavy.

I've handled a 9.3 and a 30-06 in a S2 also. Damn nice trim gun. 22.5 in barrels and slim profile. If I did not want to hunt big nastys this would be the model for me.

Ed

Hey you guys are going to get this forum a bad name with all this Lovey Dovey stuff!
Peter.

Your right Peter I should be more of a A**hole!
Doubles are not worth a S*it, and to hell with any other opinions, but mine!! Better

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by 505ED:
Your right Peter I should be more of a A**hole!
Doubles are not worth a S*it, and to hell with any other opinions, but mine!! Better

Ed

It was actually 6 shots per type of ammo (3 shots from the left barrel and 3 from the right). Every group was between 1,5 and 3 inches and I think they will improve when I scope the rifle. Open sights and precision shooting are not my strongest point.
If I superimpose the 3 groups on 1 target, it becomes an 18 shot group of 3,5 inch wide and 5 inch tall. The left barrel allways grouped left, the right barrel allways right.

My mistake.

I agree, that's pretty dreadful.

Just kidding.

quote:

can you tell me a little more about how the extractors work or does it even have conventional extractors or some other system?

They are just normal extractors. A block between the barrels pushes the cartridges up when you open the rifle.