Mac, as you may have noticed from my hammer protocol post, I recently acquired a like new Pedersol Kodiak MK IV in 45-70. Since you stated you have three of them, I put this query to you, and of course welcome all others to chime in. This rifle has what I call the"Purdy bites" in that the bottom of the lumps protrude into recesses in the action when closed. This would indicate to me that any firing stress would be shared with the hinge pin, prolonging wear. Am I on the right track, or have I been reading too much "Shootaway"?

quote:

Originally posted by quartermain:
Mac, as you may have noticed from my hammer protocol post, I recently acquired a like new Pedersol Kodiak MK IV in 45-70. Since you stated you have three of them, I put this query to you, and of course welcome all others to chime in. This rifle has what I call the"Purdy bites" in that the bottom of the lumps protrude into recesses in the action when closed. This would indicate to me that any firing stress would be shared with the hinge pin, prolonging wear. Am I on the right track, or have I been reading too much "Shootaway"?

I don't have three Pedersoli MK IVs I have only one that has been re-chambered to a 458 RCBS wild cat cartridge. Mine is only the 143rd one off the assembly line and was originally chambered for 45-70. That was the only chambering they came in when they were first ordered by TRAIL GUNS ARMORY and a replica of the early COLT double rifle from the late 1800s.

Mine shot very well using only one of the two back sights it printed my hand-loads for my Ruger NO1 side by side at 100 yds with a 400 gr bullet. I shot a lot of pigs and deer with it and then decided I wanted something with a little more power, and so the re-chambering.

The 458 RCBS is a flanged wildcat that has a case length of 2.75 inch much like the 450-100 Sharps. The hand loads I had been using in the Ruger NO 1 were fairly hot, and the Pedersoli digested them very well.

Mine is going to Aaron Little soon see if he will make me a set of 450-400NE 3 inch barrels for the action and reduce the very heavy weight to around 10 , or 11 pounds. I've no doubt about the strength of this action, with the 450-400NE 3 inch because I know of three others that have been re-chambered for 450No2 NE and one re-chambered for 450NE 3.25 inch with no problem.

.............................................................Hope any of this helps! Mac

It comes down to how the barrels are fit into the action. In the case of less expensive guns I would bet most still contact the hinge when the barrels are closed.

There are two better ways to fit barrels, but it's only seen on higher end guns.
-One way involves the rear lump just touching the lump cavity when the barrels are closed. This acts to spread forward thrust of the barrels onto the hinge and action body, it also reduces action bar flex. This is my method of fitting on my guns.

-the other method is very similar, but instead of just having slight contact on the rear lump, it bears much harder and actually draws the barrels back off of the hinge. This spreads forward thrust and flex into the action body. The one downside to this method is it makes the gun harder to open at first.

Both of these methods are called fitting-on-the-circle and is better explained in Vic Venters books.

Consider that some modern DRs bear only on the hinge pin and have no second, or third "bite". The Krieghoff, and the Chapuis are two examples of these.
Even the famous Greener Cross Bolt, does not come into load bearing "play" until the rest of the frame has been over stressed (per Greener's own tests outlined in his book).
So, each frame and locking mechanism has to be considered on it's own merits and just because stress is taken by a particular area, is neither good nor bad as long as it holds and keeps,, tight. . There is such a thing as over thinking about things in too much spare time, instead of just shooting them.

Another consideration; all those fancy locking mechanisms with redundant locking lugs, were developed in the 19th century, and very early 20th, when frames were made out of wrought iron, or maybe low carbon steel at best. Nowadays, with alloy steels used in frames and barrels, they are no longer needed to maintain integrity of the locking system.

http://www.theexplora.com/wp-c...ds/2014/12/Joint.jpg
Now you have the answer from a real expert on double rifles! My personal favorite maker is Westley Richards.

I have a WR double rifle that was sold out of the London store in 1892. It is a 500-450#1 express with the same exact hook up shown in the picture, and is tight as a jug today, so the system works!
.......................................................................Mac

My thanks to all who responded with straight and proper answers. I knew Mac, Dpcd and Aaron would chime in. I know the Kodiak will take much more than I,ll give it in terms of pressure, si it is nice to know the margin. Again, many thanks.

quote:

I have a WR double rifle that was sold out of the London store in 1892.

Mac, you bought it new, right? :-)

What dpcd says is also true. Modern steels especially through-hardening are much better than steels of the early 1900's. That said additional locking mechanisms and fitting methods can't hurt and certainly help perception.

Biebs,, That was just mean..

Funny but mean..

Biebs is just angry 'cause Janet Reno dumped him.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

I have a WR double rifle that was sold out of the London store in 1892.

Mac, you bought it new, right? :-)

And I was with him!

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

I have a WR double rifle that was sold out of the London store in 1892.

Mac, you bought it new, right? :-)

And I was with him!

Right! I went there to try to get a double for Rusty who was just under age, and they told me he was too young and I was almost too old to be able to see the sights, but they let me buy it anyway.

.....................................................................

Mac, I know they are kidding you. I just hope my Kodiak holds up as well as you have in the"face" of all this pressure!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by quartermain:
Mac, I know they are kidding you. I just hope my Kodiak holds up as well as you have in the"face" of all this pressure!!!!

Qurtermain, I'm just an enthusiast and collector of double rifles! Those two guys (dpcd & Aaron Little) are experts in the very complex methods involved in proper fitting of double rifle actions. I'm pretty good at regulating the barrels but the actual fitting of barrels to actions is out of my line. In that vain they both have forgotten more than I will ever know about the actual fitting of a double rifle action.

I have built a few double rifles on strong shotgun actions, but I only used the mono-blocking of the shot barrels sleeving in a pair of rifle barrels into the barrel butts that were already fitted to the actions. Those two guys can start with a block of steel and build a double rifle from scratch. That is a big difference! In other words they know of what they speak! I just know when it has been done correctly, by a real double rifle builder!

.......................................................................

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

I have a WR double rifle that was sold out of the London store in 1892.

Mac, you bought it new, right? :-)

And I was with him!

Right! I went there to try to get a double for Rusty who was just under age, and they told me he was too young and I was almost too old to be able to see the sights, but they let me buy it anyway.

.....................................................................

Heck -
When God said let there be light-
Mac rolled over and tried to hit the Snooze button-

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
Heck -
When God said let there be light-
Mac rolled over and tried to hit the Snooze button-

.......................

Mac
It's nice to be loved isn't it