Ok I'm having some good luck on finding used merkels and a few searcy's. The merkel s are 140A mostly and one 140AE I just missed. Prices are ok. Got a few questions for those in the know

1) extractors vs ejectors

Real life experiences which are preferred or is it just preference? Bring a shotgunner I like ejectors but also like extractors but what about DG rifle? Ejector rifles sell faster I noticed

2) folding leaf sights? Are they necessary ?

3) recoil pad? Saying yes some have butt plate (ouch) I am not a wimp and have a 505 but I would prefer not to have to get one installed later

4) color case receiver or fancy stainless etc or plain? Case looks more pricey but I'm guessing it's just cosmetics?

5) caliber? Pretty set on .470 but could go .500 but they are much more scarce and I have a 505 so may be a bit redundant .470 seems like a great chambering. Maybe abit more affordable to shoot but willing to entertain others but only stopping calibers. 470 seems more numerous.


6) what should I look for in a used double? Factory support? Problem areas? Things to avoid?



Thanks much it's a big chunk of change even used but in the market.

Thanks for any info

Jump in the waters warm! Ejectors are kool, I like them. However, target shooting etc. they are a pain because most folks save big bore brass. Having to always look and pick up gets old. 470 is far and away most available. 450NE gives more reload options because bullet selection. Got a Merkel 470 with octagon barrels. Love it

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Ok I'm having some good luck on finding used merkels and a few searcy's. The merkel s are 140A mostly and one 140AE I just missed. Prices are ok. Got a few questions for those in the know

1) extractors vs ejectors

Real life experiences which are preferred or is it just preference? Bring a shotgunner I like ejectors but also like extractors but what about DG rifle? Ejector rifles sell faster I noticed

2) folding leaf sights? Are they necessary ?

3) recoil pad? Saying yes some have butt plate (ouch) I am not a wimp and have a 505 but I would prefer not to have to get one installed later

4) color case receiver or fancy stainless etc or plain? Case looks more pricey but I'm guessing it's just cosmetics?

5) caliber? Pretty set on .470 but could go .500 but they are much more scarce and I have a 505 so may be a bit redundant .470 seems like a great chambering. Maybe abit more affordable to shoot but willing to entertain others but only stopping calibers. 470 seems more numerous.


6) what should I look for in a used double? Factory support? Problem areas? Things to avoid?



Thanks much it's a big chunk of change even used but in the market.

Thanks for any info

GS55:
1. I have doubles with both ejectors and extractors. One is as good as the other and, as noted, at the range ejectors can be a pain. If a double has ejectors, fine, but I would not pay extra for them. When I shot my lion I needed to reload quick and the ejectors on my .450-400 were nice but hunting today is so limited they are not necessary. And, the outcome of my lion would have been the same with extractors.
2. I have never used any leaf but the first, fixed leaf.
3. Recoil pads are nice in the .450 group and up. However, on the smaller calibers, a nice Silver's pad keeps the butt on the shoulder without slipping.
4. Case color tends to hide the engraving but the colors look nice. It has been said a coin finish can spook game but, as all of my doubles are vintage, I have never experienced this.
5. .450-400 is the best all around, no doubt. Go larger and the rifles get heavier, kick more, and are more expensive. I have a lot of nice doubles but the .450-400 has taken more game in Alaska, the Lower 48, Australia, and Africa than all the others combined--by far.
6. Bore condition. A poor bore is the only thing that is not repairable. Hinge pin and being tight on the face. Avoid cheap doubles. Factory support? Ask folks here on AR. The factory or maker will give glowing reports but talking to folks with experience is priceless. Ask to shoot your possible purchase to check grouping. There is a post in double rifles on AR now that talks about problems with a current maker--and he has a very good reputation.

I have had a few dozen vintage doubles go my ownership and all of them together don't add up to the problems noted in the thread referenced above.

The market for doubles has fallen the past few years and it's a buyer's market. Don't overlook vintage doubles from the UK. Many times the price is below what a new continental double will sell for and they have stood the test of time.
Good luck in your search.
Cal

Thanks for the info. How hard or adviseable is it to install a recoil pad? I found one without one and all else looks good.

For a good gunsmith it is an easy task. If the rifle fits you, then some stock will need to be trimmed so the fit remains the same after the pad is installed.
Cal

When it comes to double rifles, if you buy used (and I suggest you do if value retention is important), you sometimes have to take what you can find that fits well and appears in good condition.

When I bought mine it was so hard to find a good one s/h that I bought new - meaning there's $5000 I'll never see again.

Listen to these guys, they know more than me.

What are you looking to spend? I scan almost all the double rifles on the web a lot. I’ll let you know some of the deals around.

Great advice above. Will add, don't be in a hurry and take your time. Head to some of the bigger gun shows if you can. Worth the drive to handle the rifles and deal in cash with the seller if you can. (Just returned from the Tulsa show). I love ejectors the most when I'm selling be it a double rifle or shotgun.

Agree with Cal on the 450-400. I have a 470, but the 450-400 has seen the most action in Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:

1) extractors vs ejectors

2) folding leaf sights? Are they necessary ?

3) recoil pad?

4) color case receiver or fancy stainless etc or plain?

5) caliber?

6) what should I look for in a used double? Factory support? Problem areas? Things to avoid?

1. Ejectors. They help in the field and help with resale.

2. I have never used any blade other than the fixed standing blade.

3. A good pad helps . . . the best in my view is the 1" Pachmayr Decelerator Old English (red).

4. Purely personal preference and just about aesthetics.

5. .470 or .500, the .450/.400 is not nearly ideal for elephant, with the .470 or .500 you can hunt anything that walks the face of the earth.

6. For used rifles, stick to either brands that are well known (Heym, VC, Chapuis) if new production or reputable sellers (George Caswell, JJ Perodeau) if used.

Thanks good info

Ejectors are useless and will put your eyes out and make finding brass a pain. Those who train on the range to catch brass in their hand, will also do it in the field, thereby obviating any perceived advantage. The old white hunters didn't have them and didn't want them. John Taylor.
Train to reload and you won't miss ejectors; I personally hate them.
Leaf sights; also useless. Old rifles have them; ever shoot a 500 at 600 yards? Your PH is not going to let you shoot DG very far away.
CCH; I like it best, but I also like French Gray, or brushed silver.
450-400; best all around. Big ones are fine, but that will do anything and they hardly kick. You might not he hunting elephants; if you are only, then maybe a bigger one. I also like 450 NE for the availability of bullets. 500s are a lot of rifle.
Pad? Decelerators and what I use; Most all come with them anyway.

Pretty much what DCPD said, although I think .450ne is the best all-around/if I could only have one gun. But that’s boring.

Extractors VS ejectors?

Extractors! That is what my DR has, but that is not really my expertise - shooting double guns since a teenager is.

I began with an old Parkwr 20 ga with extractors and learned that way. No need to pick up empties at the range or in the field and only a XXXX or an auto-shooter leaves empties lying around in the field.
After learning to catch the empties ejected from my Parker Repro 20 and 12 gauges, I am looking for a good way to disable the ejectors and go back to extractors.

Aaron, can you do that for me?

Ejectors are a plus to most, and the price generally reflects this. I would not necessarilly pay more for them, but the good part is that if you want extractors, almost all ejectors can be deactivated by a gunsmith for a small fee, best of both worlds! I like my 450/400J with extractors, I would not hesitate to use it on Elephant, that said, I really feel the 450 is the best all-around choice for DG in Africa and if I could have found one that I could have afforded then, that is what I would have bought! I used a red Decellerator on mine, worked great, but have since gone back to the original Silvers pad. Express sights with folding leaves just look right on a double and I have used my 300 yd. folding leaf at my range in the past when we had a 36" steel gong @ 300 and it worked great, even my wife was ringing it. I like vibrant case colors the best, but mine is coin colored and I like it fine. Good luck on your search!

On the subject of extractors vs. ejectors on my Heym 88Bs in 450NE and 470NE there is a protected slide on the bottom of the forearm that allows you to select extractors or ejectors. On my soon to be delivered Heym 89B in 450NE this selector is an option that I did not select as I prefer ejectors

quote:

3) recoil pad? Saying yes some have butt plate (ouch) I am not a wimp and have a 505 but I would prefer not to have to get one installed later

Either a recoil pad or a butt plate will protect the toe of the stock from being chipped off in the back of a Landrover or if the rifle is dropped on its butt.

Both therefore might make sense on any rifle that might be roughly handled. In days of old "skeleton" steel butt plates were fitted to many fine sporting guns.

quote:

Those who train on the range to catch brass in their hand, will also do it in the field, thereby obviating any perceived advantage.

What he says. I therefore NEVER when shooting skeet, sporting clays and etc., etc., do anything other than let the cases get ejected fully out. Pick them up when you've finished the round or the stand.

It's why military or police training if done properly also never teaches the shooter to pick up his/her cases until the training routine is fully completed and everyone has had a smoke break, tea break or toilet break etc..

quote:

Color case receiver or fancy stainless etc or plain? Case looks more pricey but I'm guessing it's just cosmetics?

Dull is best! Color case has it as a benefit.

Non colour case? If it is shiny bright and you think it may cause problems then get a gunsmith/metal finishers to black it. Or do it yourself with a pot of that blue jelly like cold black from Birchwood Casey or similar.

Or grey cellulose lacquer paint!

Yes dull is better. My Heym's receiver is nitrided a silver colour. I covered it with tape in Africa but the bits around the hinge knuckle attained a darkened patina, either from carrying or a silicon cloth the PH lent me. I've since got an abrasive from Heym to remove the dulling but have not been game to use it.

Had it all gone dull grey, I would be happy.

Try toothpaste. And a soft bristle grade toothbrush. Mmm...well apart from the minty smell! I used toothpaste to polish scratches from wristwatch glass.

Having owned both ejector and non-ejector rifles.
(about 60 DRs and a greater number of SxS shotguns)

If you ever plan a resale , ejector guns move more readily.

As to receiver finish, choose your own preference,
though again, in newer rifles the bright
(generally titanium nitride coatings) again tend to resale better.

In the US-The most popular resale calibers currently in recently produced
rifles are 470 and 450-400, followed by 500, 375 and 577.

My last two new rifles , I ordered without ejectors and with blued receivers
Some have called them "funeral grade", a personal choice made most would not make.

My next new one will be engraved and case colored.

If I were to own only one DR it would be a 450/400
Although currently I do not own one among my remaining
battery.
If puchasing new I prefer Heym ,
though I have puchased 5 other brands new as well.
Good luck with your quest in finding your rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Yes dull is better. My Heym's receiver is nitrided a silver colour. I covered it with tape in Africa but the bits around the hinge knuckle attained a darkened patina, either from carrying or a silicon cloth the PH lent me. I've since got an abrasive from Heym to remove the dulling but have not been game to use it.

Had it all gone dull grey, I would be happy.

come shoot some buffalo with me next season and I'm sure we can dull the whole thing...

quote:

Originally posted by gbs:
On my soon to be delivered Heym 89B in 450NE this selector is an option that I did not select as I prefer ejectors

Did you order a grade 3?

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Yes dull is better. My Heym's receiver is nitrided a silver colour. I covered it with tape in Africa but the bits around the hinge knuckle attained a darkened patina, either from carrying or a silicon cloth the PH lent me. I've since got an abrasive from Heym to remove the dulling but have not been game to use it.

Had it all gone dull grey, I would be happy.

Sambarman I once had a car battery tip over in the back of my ute on a foam rubber pad on which I had my Miroku O/U laying. Arriving at the gun club shoot I was mortified to see all the bluing stripped from the barrels on one side and the silver nitrided receiver a dull fuzzy gray.

Fortunately there was a barrel full of rainwater at the club so I dunked the whole gun under water for a minute or so, shook off the water, swabed out the barrels and went on to shot trap and skeet for the day.
Stripped the gun down and sent the barrels off for rebluing but didn't know want to do about the buggered receiver finish, Got some fine steel wool and CRC 5.56 (WD40 equivalent) and carefully tried it on a small area under the action. It just simply removed the gray patina back to the factory silver finish without any effort at all. No scratching, swirling or etching and you would never know that anything had ever happened. Similarly there was no etching on the barrels and they reblued perfectly.
That gun is still like new today.

I have also found that careful use of fine steel wool and CRC or WD40 also removes fine rust from blued surfaces without damaging the blue.