Wide sidelock action (on Karl Hauptmann .475no2) with massive lower lugs as well as locking (greener like crossbolt) on both left and right side. What type of action is this?


http://www.finn.no/finn/torget...1939630&searchQuery=

I am not seeing a Greener cross bolt on the right side. Actually looks like a cross between a Greener cross bolt and a Scott's cross bolt.

http://www.hallowellco.com/double_kersten_locks.htm

Like this.... bottom Picture. Double Kersten Locks?

http://images.gunsinternationa...gs/100335676-4-L.jpg looks like this

http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100132851

I think i know the answare now


"Sidelock, double under lugs with double bite and a Kersten type double cross bolt top Lock action" hehe that was long winded!

It appears to me that what you have shown is something very unique, but a very strong action that incorporates double locking lugs and an unusual use of the Kersten double bolt locking system that is normally used in German/Austrian over/under double shotguns and double rifles.

The double Kersten locking mechanism is one of the strongest of all actions, possibly only behind the Jones' underlever. I would say that is a stout for hell action. Unusual and very different. Cannot say I've seen the Kersten used on a side x side before.

About this rifle (top link). The seller is unknowing as to if it is a .475 Jeffery (.488) or a 475 Eley (.483). What should I look for as signs that it has been fired With .488 if it is in fact a .483? Locking felt nice and tight, should I look for bulges in the barrels or something like that? Or would the gun be expected to handle firing of the wrong diameter previously?

Norsk

I wouldn't worry. A .483 bore is more than likely going to be able to take a .488 bullet IF, and that is a big IF it ever occurred, especially in a gun made with modern steel.

Just look at how many 450/400's were fired with .411 bullets until some US barrel maker started making .408 barrels, then everyone clambered for .408 bullets. I haven't heard of any problems with all those old guns.

Also, Woodleigh were making both bullets in the 80's so it i likely if they used these they used the correct one's.

In addition, a lot more knowledge was around in the 80's about doubles.

IF you want to check the barrels for anything
- ie bulges,
1. Look at them
2. Get a cleaning rod, jag and some cloth
and push it through at an even pace. You'll so feel if there is a looser part of the barrel.

Finally, the above paragraph is not meant to scare you but you seem determined to check so that is one thing you can check.

Hope that helps.

quote:

Originally posted by Norsk:
About this rifle (top link). The seller is unknowing as to if it is a .475 Jeffery (.488) or a 475 Eley (.483). What should I look for as signs that it has been fired With .488 if it is in fact a .483? Locking felt nice and tight, should I look for bulges in the barrels or something like that? Or would the gun be expected to handle firing of the wrong diameter previously?

This is where you need the service of a competent gunsmith. The chamber needs to be measured and the bore needs to be slugged so that you definitely know what caliber and what bore you are looking at. The gunsmith should conduct an overall inspection of the entire gun, to include the barrels to ensure there are no bulges or barrel wear, that the action is properly on face and tight, and that all other parts work well to include ejectors/extractors, safety, etc.

Looks like a nice rifle, although very custom.

Norsk

Or as above, get a gunsmith to do the whole lot.

From the look of the pins on the lock this gun appears to be a back action side lock vs a bar action side lock

I assure you, this is a double Kersten locking accompanied by a double under lug. Talk to the gunmaker, or inspect it for yourself. If you are still not sure, send me detailed pictures of all features of the action, and I can confirm for you.

I think the Kersten lock is very rare on a post war double, I have seen prewar german double rifles with this lock made by Vierordt and a couple of makers wich names escape me..

The Kersten lock is very strong but perhaps not so stylish as the british lock patterns..

Would you insist on having the gun inspected by a smith, slugged and test shot before purchase? I am thinking I at least need to have it looked over by someone more gun savy than me...

I would look for a bulged or burst barrel if, in fact, a .488 was fired in a .483 cartridge. Observed a 475 No. 2 at Champlin's that had a burst barrel. Unknown as to cause but it would not be out of the realm of possibility. Would be difficult to imagine how a .488 projectile would assemble into a .483 case without the handloader observing a large bulge in the neck. In addition, would seem difficult to chamber as well. Not impossible, just difficult.

As Mike Jines stated, slug the bore. That and possible indicators on the barrel flats as to correct diameter.

Dutch

No deal. After I asked seller (gundealer) to slug the bore and to borrow the gun for an inspection by a smith he said he didn't want to sell me the gun as he had a "gut feeling he would get lots of problems". Well I guess he was worried about some hidden flaw in the gun. Very strange. And no wonder he has had it out for sale for 3 years now...

Norsk

Well, if that is his attitude, then it is better for you that you don't buy the gun.

Either he doesn't know much about the gun / double rifles OR he knows of a flaw in the gun and
is hoping someone buys the gun without any inspection.

He's not a pawn shop, he's a gun dealer so asking to have the gun inspected
by a gun smith isn't an out of this world request as it is a specialist gun.

I can't believe he said what he said.

Sounds like something to walk away from. Anyone who is not willing to at least let a competent gunsmith inspect a rifle would make me highly suspicious.

I agree, walk away from it, I also find it odd that it has stayed for so long...it has been advertised rather vigorously too..

And...perhaps I should not say this...BUT IT IS NOT OF ENGLISH MAKE..

Sometimes you can kill a gun sale by
1. Leaving it up for sale for too long
2. Over advertising it.

I have said to people if it doesn't sell
in 2 months, pull it down and put sold on
it and then re advertise it 6 months later.

The gun shop has just killed another sale !!!