OK guys,

The last thread generated a serious debate "Double triigers vs Single" got a lot of play...

...Anybody want to weigh-in on the Ejector vs Non-Ejector paradox (no not the H&H gun)?!

Reason being, is that I have come to fancy the Krieghoff rifles....BUT, they don't have ejectors...

I've used both types of actions extensively and have found both to have advantages.

What do you guys think?

JW

I think it is debatable!

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I think it is debatable!

OK,

I'll jump in. I like extractors, dont like looking for my brass 6 ft away. I'd rather "dump" them out or pull out. I've always taken the hard road. No need to start on easy street now!

505ED

I've owned and used both types for years. There are infinitely more important issues to consider when shopping for a double rifle...like whether or not the darker hues of the wood properly compliment your cummerbund. I use an ejector rifle the most because of caliber, but am not really a fan of ejectors.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I think the whole thing is a subversive plot by the bolt action trash crowd to emasculate the double rifle.

Think about it:

1. The "decocker" - enough said there

2. A single Trigger - "I can get by with one". "I really don't use it enough to get the full benefit out of two." "The other one gets in the way". "It cuts down on a double discharge". "If it was good enough for Mao, it is good enough for me". What's next, the "eunich double"?

3. The automatic safety. "It prevents an accidental discharge". "It might go off from rough handling". "I don't want it firing prematurely". Hey guys, that is an issue for 14 years olds! If it is an issue, think about baseball and avoid the automatic safeties.

4. Now it is ejectors. Ejectors shoot the empties out and allow you to jam a couple more in so you are ready for continued action. Compare that to, "I just let them flop out", or "I reach in and pull out the empties", and so on. You want to get right back into it, or take a nap?

It is a conspiracy, I say!

Yes, I prefer ejectulators. But mine ejectulate a good 10'.

JPK

Ejectors vs extractors?

I'm still trying to figure out why sxs are better than o/u.

Frank-look at your avatar. Those are side by side. Still confused?

I think it usually goes something like this:
Pro extractor crowd:

"Extractors are better because if you are ever hunting in a situation where you are trying to kill multiple elephants because you are a professional ivory hunter it won't scare away the other elephants so you can kill as many as possible in one herd. Therefore if you only use extractors it makes you more smarter."

Pro ejector crowd:

"Anyone who doesn't use ejectors is a stupid head because if you get charged you can reload faster and I knew a guy once who is only alive because he had ejectors so there."

Just do a SEARCH!!!!! I did a search and came up with more info than I ever wanted to know when I had this question.

PLEASE don't bring up this topic again.

quote:

I'm still trying o figure out why sxs are better than o/u.

Frank! Get real...anybody can see from your name tag video clip that without a doubt SXS RULES! Come on man...! O/U....Jeezesch!

JW

There are a lot of new folks to the forum that would like to join a new thread on this matter.

JW

Ok, Extractors because that is what my gun is coming with and I don't know any different.

Amen...

...

I think I liked my Heym 88b 375. It had a switch so you could have it either way as the whim struck. Best of both worlds.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Wemmer:





There are a lot of new folks to the forum that would like to join a new thread on this matter.

JW

I agree! No question should go unansered if the person asking doesn't know the answer!

The fact that there are two opposing opinions as to which is the correct answer, makes for debate, and gives the questioner both sides, to choose from!

It is true that most here know there are good reason for ejector, and as many good reasons for extractors. IMO the true answer is the selector switch like Heym has, so you have both choices in one rifle! I have doubles with both,extractor, and ejectors, and I like them all for different reasons, and applications!

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
I think it usually goes something like this:
Pro extractor crowd:

"Extractors are better because if you are ever hunting in a situation where you are trying to kill multiple elephants because you are a professional ivory hunter it won't scare away the other elephants so you can kill as many as possible in one herd. Therefore if you only use extractors it makes you more smarter."

I think, for the ivory hunter of old that might have been one thing that made them choose the extractor over the ejector. Shooting doesn't seem to scare animals near as much as most think, but any matalic sound will get their attention in a heart beat!

I think, today, for the client Elephant hunter, there is still a ligitemate reason for useing extractors! especially in tight bush! Almost all trophy bulls will be accompanied by one or two ESKARIs, and when the bull is knocked down, they will rush to his side! The shots seem to be confusing to elephant, and they don't seem to zero in on the source. Break that double, and "PING" those empties into the air, they will pinpoint your position very quickly, and may cause you to have to shoot another ele if you aren't careful! The thing to do if you need to re-load the double, place your hand over the opening so the empties are not ejected, and the click is dampened! Place the cses in your pocket, and re-load, and wait. The eskaris will sometimes mill around the downed bull, then leave.

quote:

Pro ejector crowd:

"Anyone who doesn't use ejectors is a stupid head because if you get charged you can reload faster and I knew a guy once who is only alive because he had ejectors so there."

I think that is the opinion of some ejector followers, but not the ones who have any real thought process, and they simply believe that speed is the only thing that matters, believing that they can re-load the rifle quickly, and don' think about inducing another ele to charge you, resulting in a lot of paper work, and maybe a lot of funds being involved.

I don't believe anyone who hunts elephant can be discribed as "STUPID", except by stupid people.


Addtionally, I don't think Buffalo, are unduely bothered by the "PING", because if he is going to charge, he usually does so in short order, no matter what you do. However, I do think the cats, and ele are very attuned to metalic sounds, especially, after being wounded, and can pinpoint you exactly. Here,it is best to re-load long before you start the follow-up, IMO!

When you get down to the "nut cuttin" it is simply every man's choice, as it should be! Mine is for extractors for ELE, an ejectors for the cats, but the re-load MUST be done properly, before the follow-up starts! On Buffalo, you can use either! If a lion or Leopard charges you from close range, the ejection system will not matter at all, because you will be lucky to get off two shots with your double, and one with your bolt rifle, anyway!

I would agree with "400 Nitro Express" --- depends on the rifle and cost. I would not pass up a classic DR because it had ejectors and/or extractors.

JW,

What advantages have you found with each type?

So, an over and under, single trigger, non-ejector, bolted automatic safety, .375 Holland & Holland belted rimless chambered, non-third fastener, high power scope-sighted, Austrian balanced and heavy as Rosie O'Donnell double rifle would be okay, then?

Only if it has a selective trigger and no standing rear sight, only the one folding leaf.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
Only if it has a selective trigger and no standing rear sight, only the one folding leaf.

JPK

Thanks. Anyone know a good gunsmith who can retrofit a single selective trigger and folding only rear sight blade? I'd like to keep costs down to around $50.

I like extractors, I hate ejectors, I am opinnionated on the subject.

I like to punch the release and have the barrels flop down from the weight of the barrels, I hate having to break the damn gun over my leg to load it and that comes with ejectors.

I don't like crawling around in the grass looking for brass that has been tossed to hell and back

I don't like that clank, clank although I don't buy off on it gives one away, yelling shoot him again does that.

But in the short rows the only thing that matters is what you like. So many die trying!

I personally would be wary of hunting with DRs with different modes of case removal. The beware the man with one gun thing.

This is the thing that makes me laugh over and again. I guess it's been said here, I know it's been recounted to me in conversation with PH and hunter alike. In the field, maybe hunt of a lifetime or maybe one of many, a very expensive safari none the less, 2 shots from DR are fired by hunter and the first thing he does - worse, the first thing he thinks about is his EMPTIES!? As written in Donnie Brasco "Forget About It", literally! $20K minimum safari and some guys are worried about $8 worth of brass.

Showbart,

Yea, I don't get the brass thing either, especially when the trackers will look for your brass , after the fact, when it makes sense, til the cows come home if you ask.

At the range it is no issue to either catch it or pick it all up after the fact.

Ray,

I prefer ejectors but I can tell you first hand that the "PING" lets the remaining elephants in the herd know where you are. In tight cover, the shot, and even a second shot, only leaves them bewildered.

JPK

I like the idea of the tracker picking the spent cases out of the air as they arc back over your PH's head.

JPK,
The ping may very well give ones location away but there is a lot going on that gives Tembo your location away, movement and talking, mostly by staff, after the shot being foremost IMO. At any rate with my extractors that ping is not in the picture and the ease of loading are foremost. The noise of the loaded rounds being replaced is all it takes for the elephants sinsitive ears and I know of no way around that.

Also I am an old hand at using that method, used to it and comfortable with it.

It's like most things out there its a trade off.

Ray,

Two things,

First, I have seen accompanying elephants, already looking for us, zero in on our location when I openned the gun and the ejectors went "PING", which in the silence following the shot is an extraordinarily loud and out of place sound.

Second, none of the six trackers I have hunted with have been dumb enough to to do any inapropriate moving or talking after the shot. In the thick, it is often best to shoot, make your insurance shot and then retreat to more open ground. You can retreat as silently as the approach which brought you the shot. But the "PING" can accelerate your retreat!

I've done some running because of the "PING", but I am still a fan of ejectors. For those with the slower extractors, it must be comforting to hear that the eles do not react until you are loading your rifle, rather than unloading it, as is the case with the faster ejectors.

BTW, probably the biggest suprise I have faced elephant hunting is the fact that you can often, but not always, run from elephants you don't want to shoot. Contrary to decades worth of writing by old elephant hands of the past.

JPK

It has been my experience that elephants tend to run and get excited as soon as the first shot goes off. They may not key in on the location until the second shot or they see some movement. The ping of an ejector may also help them key in on your location. I think movement will do it just as quickly. The bolt rifle noise as a cartridge is ejected and another chambered is even louder and longer in duration. I have never heard any one propose that you are more likely to be charged if you use a bolt gun than when using a double. Any thoughts on this?

465H&H

In the thick stuff, in an area where the elephants are particularly nasty, like the Save or Ghonarezhou, I think a bolt has got to lead to more trouble.

JPK

John

I have to agree with you. The "4 step sound" made by a bolt attracts some attention as well.

Interesting, the GI's in WWII had an similar issue with the M-1. The clip ejection caused a ping. The Germans took little time to realize that the sound meant it was time to reload, thereby taking that opportunity to open fire. American ingenuity, being what it is, kicked in. The GI's carried empty clips and tossed them on a hard surface after a couple of shots. The Germans took that as a signal to come out of cover to open fire. To their severe detriment.

Just a thought...

With all of the above my conclusion to the problem of elephant hunting with rifles is quite simple.

NEF Handi rifle in..Ohh don't.....make ....me say it....

Ok I can't help myself....

in .45-70

A non-ejector, all the time.