http://auctions.holtsauctionee...fno=+++95386&image=3

Not a bad valuation too. IMHO it is too low. I would expect it to sell over US$12k

I think their estimate is not bad considering that it is BPE gun with Damascus barrels. Not nearly the demand or premium for such rifles compared to a nitro proofed rifle. That said, it is a beautiful rifle and would be a joy to own. And a top lever, hammerless BPE gun as well as opposed to an underlever or hammer gun.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
I think their estimate is not bad considering that it is BPE gun with Damascus barrels. Not nearly the demand or premium for such rifles compared to a nitro proofed rifle. That said, it is a beautiful rifle and would be a joy to own. And a top lever, hammerless BPE gun as well as opposed to an underlever or hammer gun.

+1 Could not have said it better!

Mike and Subsailor:
Would you agree with my assessment: Over the decades firearm quality as gone to the dumps. Every US maker offers plastic stocks as they are cheaper to make and the wood to metal fit is poor. I've noticed the same thing in the vintage years of the UK's gunmaking. My observations are the bpe rifles made in the late 1800s are of more intricate quality than those of the post WW I years. The engraving is finer, file cut ribs, etc., As time went by, the engraving became more large and bold. To me, older bpe best double rifles are of a higher quality though not as desirable as to caliber than their nitro cousins.
Cheers, gents,
Cal

I would agree with that generally, although the doubles made by the premier makers in the 1930's certainly do not give up much if anything to the pre-WW I doubles. I actually feel that the 1930's was the Golden Age for doubles in terms of the combination of technological advancements, metallurgy of the components and overall workmanship.

Can you shoot modern factory ammo in these guns ?

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Can you shoot modern factory ammo in these guns ?

Mike

I have been doing so for 25+ years, but must quality that the modern ammo must be loaded to original pressures--bpe pressure for bpe rifles, nitro pressures for nitro rifles, and not to try to make a vintage double into a modern whiz-bang magnum.
Cal

Lovely rifle. Beautiful craftmanship

Cheers, CHris

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Mike and Subsailor:
Would you agree with my assessment: Over the decades firearm quality as gone to the dumps. Every US maker offers plastic stocks as they are cheaper to make and the wood to metal fit is poor. I've noticed the same thing in the vintage years of the UK's gunmaking. My observations are the bpe rifles made in the late 1800s are of more intricate quality than those of the post WW I years. The engraving is finer, file cut ribs, etc., As time went by, the engraving became more large and bold. To me, older bpe best double rifles are of a higher quality though not as desirable as to caliber than their nitro cousins.
Cheers, gents,
Cal

My favorites are the turn of the century rifles and sidelock shotguns made in London. It seems like they all the time in the world to do everything just right in those days. I especially like the fine rose and scroll engraving common to that era.

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
Mike and Subsailor:
Would you agree with my assessment: Over the decades firearm quality as gone to the dumps. Every US maker offers plastic stocks as they are cheaper to make and the wood to metal fit is poor. I've noticed the same thing in the vintage years of the UK's gunmaking. My observations are the bpe rifles made in the late 1800s are of more intricate quality than those of the post WW I years. The engraving is finer, file cut ribs, etc., As time went by, the engraving became more large and bold. To me, older bpe best double rifles are of a higher quality though not as desirable as to caliber than their nitro cousins.
Cheers, gents,
Cal

My favorites are the turn of the century rifles and sidelock shotguns made in London. It seems like they all the time in the world to do everything just right in those days. I especially like the fine rose and scroll engraving common to that era.

Last week I spent some time in London at Holland and Holland. Most of the last century they have been running around 70 guns per year - rifles and shotguns. 1920-1930s they were running 120-130 guns a year.

It took them 11 years to sell a left handed used double rifle in 375 h&h. To have any liquidity these guns need to be right handed.

Beautiful guns - most cost a median us house new.

Mike

Mike - while in London did you also stop by the Aston Martin showroom down the street from Holland and Holland? The last time I was there, a new Aston Martin cost less than a Holland and Holland double rifle!

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:
Mike - while in London did you also stop by the Aston Martin showroom down the street from Holland and Holland? The last time I was there, a new Aston Martin cost less than a Holland and Holland double rifle!

Admiral,

Actually i did. Had time to kill between meetings at the Mayflower. I walked to the Audi Dealership, then the Aston Martin, then the Bentley and Rolls Royce and finally made it to Holland and holland.

Interesting how similar Rolls Royce and Holland and Hollands products are - both highly bespoke. But in reality majority of the production for both sold is the stock model.

Also if one was going to spend six figures on a gun buy a pair of shotguns. There will always be release birds for guys for whom a holland and holland costs less relative than a beretta 471 for most average hunters.

Cant say the same about 600 double rifle. I thought the holland and holland bolts at $60k were way overvalued. My ahr cz has nicer wood and shoots better than those $60k rifles and has same scope (Swarovski z6).

Mike

The current Holts catalogue has a number of nice old guns. Another Alex Henry looks like the a Daniel Fraser automatic design.