Considering on purchasing a 375 H&H with scope mounts. How far is a realistic shot? Is a 300 yard shot at an elk possible? I would like to hunt North America and of course Africa with it.

375J,

Yes, a 300 yard shot with a scoped double on a beast the size of elk (about 8" circle for the vitals) is possible.

But you are not going to know whether your rifle can hold that close until you try it. I have never shot that far with my first double, a 350 Rigby No. 2 with the scope aligned to the left (least used and hence most accuate barrel). It would give me a one inch group from that barrel at 100 yards and about 2-1/2 inches composite group with both barrels at that range.

Believe you must handload to ensure the best combination of accuracy and punch.

Now, you are not going to load your double to max for the .375 H&H 300 grain bullet. Nor does an elk require a 300 grain bullet. Perhaps you should try a premium bullet at 270 grains or even 235 grains -- but a premium bullet. See what happens at 300 yards with a sensible charge of powder and the scope set for 2-1/2 or 3 inches high at 100 yards...

Must say 'tho that I would rather hunt much closer and have, in fact, never taken a shot at over 200 yards and that only rarely.

Regards, Tim

One barrel easy. Having both barrels regulated well enough, and you having absolutely consistent hold, very difficult

No problem. Make the first shot count. Standing, broadside, relaxed, if you whiff that one, you probably won't connect with the second shot. BTW, in 1983 +/-, in my over/under days , my first elk was taken in Durango, Co. on the last day of the hunt. With much practice I was very familiar with the drop at various distances. In the day, I had one of those range finders with which you slide/focus and then read the distance. I had a sketch tacked to a limb identifying rock at 10:00=175 yards, etc.. I was in a tree stand following a snow. A herd appeared below. After ranging, I shot the bull at 425 yards with the Browning .270 under barrel. No reaction, so I quickly shot the over barrel. He still froze. I quickly reloaded. A cow moved between me and the bull. After about two minutes she moved to the side. As I was about to squeeze a third shot, the bull kneeled down like he was bedding down and fell to his side. I will never forget that moment! Both shots about 4" apart in the heart/lung. Even a blind squerrel finds a nut every now and then.

I dont' consider the double rifle as a long range rifle at all, scope or not scope..It was never ment to be and you take a chance that it may not group well enough to start with.

I also am firmly convienced that a double rifle should only shoot rimmed cartridges and the .375 H&H has proven itself a less than intelligent caliber for double rifles, the extractors or ejectors then to jump the rims on rimless rounds in a double and pressures can go way beyond double rifle quoted safety tonnage. The .375 operates at 55,000 to as much as 65,000 PSI. That will take a double off face in most cases.

With my scoped 9,3x74R double rifle I have killed a doyote at 287 yards, and a kudu at a little over 300 yards.

I have shot several rocks with iron sights with my 450/400 double rifle with the flip up leaf at 300 yards. I killed a caribou at @175-190 yards with it as well.

I have shot a giraffe with my 450 No2 double at 188 yards, iron sights.

I have shot a coyote at 166 yards with my Heym 26B O/U in 30/30 with a 4x scope.

IMHO double rifles are not just for short range.

I shoot all of my doubles on paper, at the ranges I might have to shoot them in the field, just like I would any rifle I hunt with.

Assuming rifles of similar calibre, and the same sighting system I do not feel "range handicapped" when using a double rifle.

So to answer your original question, I would feel just as comfortable making a shot at a distance with a 375 H&H double as I would with a 375 H&H bolt rifle as I would have shot BOTH of them at a distance before I took either one of them hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
With my scoped 9,3x74R double rifle I have killed a doyote at 287 yards, and a kudu at a little over 300 yards.

I have shot several rocks with iron sights with my 450/400 double rifle with the flip up leaf at 300 yards. I killed a caribou at @175-190 yards with it as well.

I have shot a giraffe with my 450 No2 double at 188 yards, iron sights.

I have shot a coyote at 166 yards with my Heym 26B O/U in 30/30 with a 4x scope.

IMHO double rifles are not just for short range.

I shoot all of my doubles on paper, at the ranges I might have to shoot them in the field, just like I would any rifle I hunt with.

Assuming rifles of similar calibre, and the same sighting system I do not feel "range handicapped" when using a double rifle.

So to answer your original question, I would feel just as comfortable making a shot at a distance with a 375 H&H double as I would with a 375 H&H bolt rifle as I would have shot BOTH of them at a distance before I took either one of them hunting.

I was witness to the 287 yard shot on the coyote, and he didn’t just hit him with one barrel both barrels! The first shot knocked the coyote down the shot being a little back because the coyote was following some deer and moving pretty fast, the coyote got up and started spinning, Tony fired the left barrel a slapped the coyote down for the count!

I saw PWN375 hit a running coyote at close to 150 yards with a 45-70 Pedersoli double, and Mark Cash hit a running wild hog with a I Hollis 450/400 #’ double at 150 yds at night with artificial light.

Gentlemen if your double rifle is shooting loads that are loaded correctly, the double rifle will do anything an iron sighted rifle of any kind will do with like chambering, and sighting equipment! Regardless of the rifle type beware the man that knows his rifle, you certainly may not be out of range!

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375 John:
Good day. If I was to do the double thing all over again (and I may do so in the spring) I would sight in the scope to shoot the first barrel in moa accuracy to 300+ yards. Shoot again with that barrel if needed, and remove the scope for an up-close stalk. Yes, this would throw off the second barrel with the scope but, for a long range shot, who cares? Most so if the first shot could be done with better accuracy.
I will do this in the spring with my .450-400 ble--the only double I own with a scope as I am looking into a cat hunt in Zim and would like the extra accuracy for that most important first shot.
Any other thoughts on this, readers?
Just a thought of mine............
Cheers,
Cal

Give a shooter a properly fitting 1/2 MOA bolt rifle and a 3 MOA iron sighted double and have him fire both off hand at 100 yards. Doubt he could fire the scoped rifle any better, I know I couldnt.
Even with a 3 MOA double the rifle should be able to hit within 3 inches of where you are aiming at 200 yards.

My point to all this rambling is most rifles, including doubles, are more accurate than the people shooting them. No one will know for sure until you do some range work at the longer distances.

Here we go again. Long range shooting with a double requires a scope and scopes on doubles Use your double for what it was designed for. If you can consistently put two quick shots into a pie plate at 50 meters, you're good to go. Leave the long shots for your bolt gun. Scopes just screw up the doubles handling. If you are carrying a scoped double in the bush and get a close quarter charge with your scope on, you'll rue the day you put that scope on but fortunately, not for long. If you have to, put a Dr. Optic or Aimpoint on. Doubles a'int for coyotes. Just my two cents.

Hi Cal,

I can think of more than a handful of people who would get one barrel working very well with a scope or red dot. If the cartridge is capable of long range shooting or intermediate range shooting...why not?

I do believe it works and have done so with a red dot while regulating at Birchwood. I am a firm believer in trying it at the range first at longer distances to confirm you can achieve the accuracy you desire.

BTW, with a red dot and reduced loads & cast bullets at 110 meters am hitting a 2 liter bottle with both barrels.

Matt

Atkinson,

I saw your post and opinion regarding non rimmed rounds. I understand your position and respectfully disagree.

I believe a well made double rifle can reliably eject or extract rimless cartridges without difficulty.

I agree that handloaded rounds should not be hotrodded but rather loaded within the specs of the published reloading manuals.

Cheers,

Matt

Scopes on doubles...

Well I DEFINATLY believe in scoping a double rifle.
I have hunted with and killed a lot of game with scoped doubles.
A Heym O/u 26B in 30/30, a 9,3x74R, and scoping my 450/400 was one of the best moves I ever made. All of my doubles, combo guns, Drillings, Doublerifle Drillings have scopes in QD mounts. Most are fitted with more than one scope and some with red dots as well.

In facr I think every double 40 cal and under should have a good scope in a QD mount.

Simply stated, anything I can do with a scoped bolt rifle I can, and have, done with a scoped double.

If hyou do not want tot scope on the rifle just take it off. When you need it, put it on.

What would make a better leopard, or lion gun than a scope double???

Most people seem to think of a double as a specialized rifle, with a bolt as a general purpose rifle...

Well after hunting with doubles for a wide variety of game, in Texas, Montana, Idaho, Canada, and Zimbabwe, I feel just the opposite.
I prefer a scoped double for any game where my shots will be mostly under 250 yards. I have made some shots at 300 yards with my doubles.
I view the bolt rifle the speciality gun, most useful for longer range shots.

I have found that having 2 immediate shots much more useful than a bolt rifle with a 3 or 4 shot magazine.

The negative for a double is they are more expensive than a bolt rifle.

quote:

I also am firmly convienced that a double rifle should only shoot rimmed cartridges and the .375 H&H has proven itself a less than intelligent caliber for double rifles, the extractors or ejectors then to jump the rims on rimless rounds in a double and pressures can go way beyond double rifle quoted safety tonnage. The .375 operates at 55,000 to as much as 65,000 PSI. That will take a double off face in most cases.

Ray, have you ever seen a newly built 375 H&H that shot off face? Or seen a double built for a belted magnum fail to eject?
My POS Baikal 30-06 will eject the cases every time, and this is with some stout 220 grain Hornady loads.
During one of the Alaska DRSS fun shoots one of the guys brought out his .338 Win Mag double, another brought out what I remember was a Chapuis 375 H&H. Both shot very well and the owners said zero issues with case ejection.
If companies like Heym and Chapuis will built rifles with higher pressure, belted cases such as the 338 and 375 then I am guessing there are no mechanical issues at all. This is just another old theory that simply will not die.

I don't like the looks of a scoped double rifle. But all my doubles are set up to take a scope because at some point in time it might be the only way I can shoot them accurately.

Recently the concept of sighting in the scope using only one barrel (to avoid possible regulation issues) was presented to me and after giving it some thought it has some serious merit to it. Shoot at long range if needed, remove the scope for up close work. Might be a good way to go.

NE 450 No 2 is posting some really valid advice. In my limited double experience they will do a lot more than the average shooters gives them credit. The longest shot I ever made on any big game animal was with my Chapuis.

The 375 H&H belted rimless cartridge in a modern double rifle that was originally chambered for that cartridge by the maker and not a set of 375 H&H barrel made later and fitted to a double that was originally chambered for some cartridge that has a much lower chamber pressure, may well cause you some problem with Off-face condition. IMO the original chambering was for 375H&H belted rimless cartridge, and factory or equivalent hand-loads (pressure wise) then the rifle was made to take the pressure and you shouldn’t have a problem with loosening.

The problem with the ejector system is not so much the ejection, but the slow re-loading of the chambers in a tight spot with something trying to get to you! As NE 450 Exp says most double rifle chambered for belted rimless cartridges require each round to be pushed past the spring-loaded pawls till the pawl snaps into the extractor groove in the cartridge.Not the best idea anyone ever hand on a dangerous game rifle. This causes a very slow re-load at a very critical time. All flanged cartridges feed into the chambers by gravity and simultaneously with very little practice!

The problem everyone has with a scope on a double rifle amazes me! The problem is, these people seem to be unaware of how these things are properly used. On a bolt rifle the scope is the primary sighting system, and should be mounted in quality Quick-detach mounts that absolutely return to zero when removed for use with equally reliable iron sights and replaced. This rifle is normally carried with the scope attached, and the irons are back-up and special purpose sights.

The double rifle is exactly opposite! The factory irons are the PRIMARY sighting system, and that is the way the double is normally carried. The scope is only installed when it is needed for a special purpose, like when hunting over bait where failing light is common, or when game is spotted where a shot must be placed through a little opening in bush where the scope will let you see the sticks that may deflect the bullet and wound, and can’t be seen with the naked eye using iron sights.

Here again the scope on a double rifle should be sighted in exactly half way between the centers of each barrel’s individual group! This way the rifle shoots into the composite group no matter which barrel you shoot! If you sight in for only one barrel you may as well leave the scope off because it will be more trouble that it is worth!

Factories have been fitting scopes to double rifles as long as they have been available, especially the smaller ones used for mountain hunting in Europe!

Follow, or disregard to your satisfaction!

Seriously thinking of using my V-C 375 for deer next week. Whether with iron sights or scope in Recknagel swing-off mounts, puts the bullets in the same place no matter how many times I've put it on or taken it off. Worked great on leopard in Namibia two weeks ago.

Great choice and good luck! You won't be sorry.