Great post over on 24HR Forum about a great hunt including elephant with a 450NE Sabbati.

In 24hourcampfire?

Can't seem to find it though I would like to read it.

Thanks,

over on the Africa Forums. Can't post a link from where I am right now but I will later this eve.

Found it Jorge and here are the links there and on AR


Sabatti vs. Elephant - 24Hr forum

also here on AR in African Hunting Reoprts:
Sabatti vs. Elephant

What? The gun didn't malfunction? He didn't use it to beat the ele to death? Imagine that - great working Sabattis out there! I knew I wasn't the only one to get a great rifle and in fact, mine will be doing the same trip as Jay did (With Phillip and ITS next August for tuskless and buff too)

I just took my Sabbati stock off to shoeten it and I very very pleased with the insdes of the action. Better designed than some of the guns that cost three times as much. Finish inside was also better. I'll get you guys posted when I put it thru the ringer soon. May have to take it to Michael458's for a torture test.

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Great post over on 24HR Forum about a great hunt including elephant with a 450NE Sabbati.

"FOR THE SABATTI HATERS!" ??????????????????????????????????????????

Jorge, this still seems to be a very sore spot for you,if the title of your thread is any indication! What I can't understand is being angry at the folks who made people aware of the poor record of the rifles, rather than blaming the maker who screwed up what could have been a real boon to the shooting world. Some got good ones, but the bad ones far outweighed the good,IMO ruining the rep, and now the die is cast I'm afraid!

Nobody HATES Sabattis, but there are a lot more that hate what they got with the Sabatti name on them, than those who are happy with their purchase! For the guys that got one that wasn't screwed up so bad it wouldn't shoot well enough to hit the back stop behind the target at 50 yds, they got a real bargain.

At least eight out of ten sold were returned. That, to me, indicates it is a $5000 crap shoot to buy one, hopeing to get one that would actually hit the walls from the inside of a closed barn with both barrels.

Because YOU got one that would shoot well, it really suprised me when you returned it. However, I still think you got more value for your money with the VC! I'd like anyone to name just one other brand of double rifle that had at least 50% of the rifles sold that ended up returned or on the USED gun market within the first six months of a new purchase! I await the long list!

Killing the messenger doesn't change the message!

................................................................................

Mac: I'm on the fence here, but where did you get the 80 percent failure rate? Just curious.

Bill,

Some of the Sabtti double rifles came with their barrels severly "touched" to make them more accurate because their original accuracy was terrible. With a simple look at the end of the barrels you can noticed the damage.

Some of us where lucky and our rifles came ok from the company, at least mine that was bought here in South America was ok.

Obviously there much better doubles out there, in the US you can find anything, but for my pocket and for where I live, this was the only option, and as I said, my rifle was ok, if not I would have return it without doubt.

L

Oooops sorry !!!

You asked about percentage of rifles returned...I don't have idea, but MANY AR members have had problems with their Sabatti's and if I remember well a very well known double rifle gunsmith refused to continue fixing these rifles. At least that was what I read here.

L

Mine shoots very well, I'm happy with it...

Lorenzo: I've read most of those Sabatti posts too. Some guys definitely got the ground-muzzle lemons, but my guess is the number of buyers who have kept and been happy with their Sabattis is more than 20 percent, unless I missed some threads.

Gentlemen all one has to do is to canvas the used gun market to see offer after offer of used Sabattis for sale to see that something is off with these rifles. The instances of returned rifle to Cabela's of these rifle that are put back on the shelves that are still for sale as used doubles with seemingly no fix applied.

The percentages may be off because some of those returns have been resold without being fixed, so some being counted twice, but there is no denying that these doubles have some serious faults.

Not one brand in my,just under 54 years of owning and hunting with double rifles,since age 21, have I seen a brand of double rifle with so many rifles with this number of serious faults.

It seems the worse offenders were the Cabela's upper end specials, while I haven't seen the base models to be that bad. That may be that with the cheaper ones less was expected of them, so folks simply accepted them with their faults or there were less shortcuts on them to get to the lower price point. In any event there seems to be fewer problems with the cheaper models.

I must admit I was very tempted to buy one when the Cabela's special first came on the market, and I'm very glad I held off to see what the long term service record would show. I'm happy for the guys, who bought the ones that didn't exhibit the regulation problems, but IMO they were simply lucky, and I'm not a great buyer depending on luck!
..............................................

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Lorenzo: I've read most of those Sabatti posts too. Some guys definitely got the ground-muzzle lemons, but my guess is the number of buyers who have kept and been happy with their Sabattis is more than 20 percent, unless I missed some threads.

Bill, the ground muzzles are an indication of a deeper problem. The grinding of the muzzles was because the rifle was not regulated properly to begin with, and was most likely done on a JIG rather than trial and error by the maker. IMO they tried to fix it with grinding the muzzles to cause the bullets to YAW instead of re-regulating the rifle properly. I have no doubt that muzzle grinding was done by some shade-tree fixer here in the USA. This is an indication of cost cutting in the absolute worse place, and a fix that is even worse.

Jig regulation with a pre-conceived formula will not work and has been tried by every double rifle maker in the world and it has never worked, any better than it did for Sabatti. The Heart of a good double rifle is in its proper regulation, and is the last place a reputable company would try to cut cost!

..............................All just my opinion, and worth exactly the price you paid for it! Gentlemen I'm through with the Sabatti issue. I didn't buy one and I'm very glad I didn't, so anyone who likes them and is willing to take a $5000 gamble I say be my guest.
...........I'm gone

Mac, I love ya man, but we both know the Sabbati haters were out loooong before the muzzle issue came to light.
Prior to this, renowned gunsmiths the likes of JJ Perodeau and others here who actually examined them had nothing but good things to say about them, yet there was (is) a few here who shunned them from the start, and once the muzzle issue was exposed, it was like blood in the water.

Knowing what I know now and what to look for, I still contend their are good rifles for the money invested and hell even mine shot well with the gouund muzzles. Remember my targets? I was up front with everyone here that I just could not live with those barrels even mine shot superbly. jorge

I have read all the threads about the Sabatti rifles. Some rifles were good and some not so good.

But the way I see it is the real problem with the rifles was the course of action taken by grinding the muzzles on rifles that did not shoot well initially, the so-called 'final tuning'.

The underlying problem was the 'mission statement' or goal of this action. The goal was not to make a rifle that shot well; the goal was to make a rifle shoot just well enough to put two holes fairly close together on a 50 yard target so the dealer could sell rifles.

The company did not care what happened to the bullets after 50 yards; they induced instability to the bullets so they would print on a target in an acceptabble manner.

The goal was not to make a good hunting rifle.

This was a short sighted tactic that harmed Sabatti and Cabela's reputations.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

At least eight out of ten sold were returned. That, to me, indicates it is a $5000 crap shoot to buy one, hopeing to get one that would actually hit the walls from the inside of a closed barn with both barrels.

Killing the messenger doesn't change the message!

I too would like to know where you got this 80% return rate from?

It mostly seemed to me, the guys who bought them, and were happy were quieter than the few who bought them and were not.


Not to say that they're less important the guys happy with a gun, but in this forum, I dare say there are way more people who can afford nicer guns, and tend to look down on the Sabatti' than there are guys who can only afford to just eek in to the market of double rifles.



Lastly, your closing remark, especially after you throw out percentages, that don't seem to be supported by any kind of fact, seem to add credence to the thought that you're simply one of the guys who hates Sabatti, period.


I know there are only a few of us on the forum who have them, but there are several that shoot well. Atleast two posters here who have far more experience with doubles than I, have fired my rifle, and both of them were very impressed, and had nothing but decent things to say about mine.

Granted, its not an H&H or a Rigby, nor is it as nice as my Chapuis but its certainly a serviceable weapon.

quote:

Originally posted by AK_Stick:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

At least eight out of ten sold were returned. That, to me, indicates it is a $5000 crap shoot to buy one, hopeing to get one that would actually hit the walls from the inside of a closed barn with both barrels.

Killing the messenger doesn't change the message!

I too would like to know where you got this 80% return rate from?

It mostly seemed to me, the guys who bought them, and were happy were quieter than the few who bought them and were not.[B]


Not to say that they're less important the guys happy with a gun, but in this forum, I dare say there are way more people who can afford nicer guns, and tend to look down on the Sabatti' than there are guys who can only afford to just eek in to the market of double rifles.



[B]Lastly, your closing remark, especially after you throw out percentages, that don't seem to be supported by any kind of fact, seem to add credence to the thought that you're simply one of the guys who hates Sabatti, period.


I know there are only a few of us on the forum who have them, but there are several that shoot well. Atleast two posters here who have far more experience with doubles than I, have fired my rifle, and both of them were very impressed, and had nothing but decent things to say about mine.

Granted, its not an H&H or a Rigby, nor is it as nice as my Chapuis but its certainly a serviceable weapon.

AK I just spent an hour writing you an explanation for all the accusations you posted above, and somehow I hit something that totally erased the whole thing! So, this will be short and to the point, as I will not spend another hour explaining my take on this subject!

*1- As I said in another post the 80% may be a little off, but I think that may be because most who got bad ones in the beginning simply kept quiet and dumped them on the used gun market before Cabela's said they would take them back for a refund, then the ones who bought them on the used gun market, not being the original buyer, couldn't return them so dumped them on the used gun market again. Then the word came out about them not shooting well from everywhere. Those rifles are still out there. The ones who bought the bad ones that could return them did, and some of those I witnessed personally on the range and they weren’t just a little off but very bad. The DRSS has hundreds of members and quite a few bought these Cabela's specials and most were returned for a refund. That fact and the ones dumped on the used market may have a few counted two or three times depending on how many buyers were stung, so I admit the 80% may be a misreading. The fact is not one unit should have left the factory without being properly regulated in the first place.

*2- Let me dispel your opinion of me personally! I am not a Sabatti hater per se' but I do hate the JIG regulation they chose to use to cut cost. The regulation of a double rifle is its heart, and is the last place to cut cost. Then because most did not regulate properly, the second mistake was to grind the rifling out of one side or the other at the muzzle to try in attempt to correct the first mistake, is the action of a shade-tree operation. I was tempted to buy one myself when they were first announced, but in my 75 yrs of life, I have learned all that glitters is not gold so decided to wait to see how these things held up to a few months of shooting before committing to buy one. That doesn't make me a snob that only will buy something because of a NAME, it makes me cautious more than anything. I'm not one that can just drop $5K on a gamble, but if a product proves to be worth the $5K or more I will find a way. In this case I found the lace removed there was a pig hiding underneath. IMO, when you are knowingly taking a chance of getting a bad one, you should be thankful that someone tried to make you aware that it was a gamble rather than cuss him because you went ahead.

*3- I think the knowledgeable folks were complimenting you on your rifle was because you were lucky enough to get one of the good ones, because that is what they were looking at! What do you think their responses would have been if your rifle was shooting all over the target at 25 yds? I think you would have gotten a far different review, don't you?

In the final analysis any company that lets even a few units get out of the factory with serious regulation problems is simply not paying attention!

.............................................................................BYE

http://www.americanrifleman.or...el-92-deluxe-review/

Seems American Rifleman did a review a few days ago in their recent magazine. Overall impression was good with notes on some of the regulation issues touted.

And a very fair assessment it was and STILL an excellent value for the money.

My best bud and hunting partner bought one in 470, and yes it had been ground. Bottom line is it shoots Hornady factory softs and solids into grapefruit sized composit groups at 50 yards off sticks. At 9.5 lbs. it kicks like a mule, but Hell lets face it they all kick. He had the comb shaved down to suit him and stock cut to for correct LOP while adding a 1" Pachmeyer. About 150 rounds threw it and one trip to Zim taking several head of game. No issues at all.

For some of us the Sabatti lets us do the double rifle thing were we would have to otherwise choose between the rifle or the hunt.

No shame in that just how it is.

Many Thanks

Brett

There was another company looking at bringing them under their name. They wanted Sabbatti to do some changes..ie different engraving, different opening lever, better wood and a PROPER REGULATION!This would have pushed the retail cost to around $7000--and the deal fell apart--because Sabbati did not want to do the extra work. Cables took the "deal" as is and the rest is history...you get what you pay for.

The cost of these guns from Sabatti is aournd $2800 so Cabelas is making a nice profit.. Th cost with the extras was goingto be close 4400 so Mac I will say you were right on a thing or two...everything that glitters is not gold!

Ed

Gentlemen I’m not interested in being right, I just hate to see guys go into something blind! So when I see things that I think people should be made aware of I will post a warning, and they are free for the accepting, or rejecting.

If you will notice I usually follow my own advice, and this subject is no different!

…………………………………………………………… .

I think the biggest thing attracting you negative attention was the false claim of 80% return rate. When its much more likely to be in the 30-40% rate. (though I will not disagree that even 30% is far too high to be acceptable.)

quote:

Originally posted by AK_Stick:
I think the biggest thing attracting you negative attention was the false claim of 80% return rate. When its much more likely to be in the 30-40% rate. (though I will not disagree that even 30% is far too high to be acceptable.)

One question! Do you think any reputable double rifle maker would have even 30% of their production being regulated bad enough to cause that many to be returned or sold when still brand new?

And, who says the 80% is a false rate? I admit as I have earlier that rate may be not accurate, but not a lie.

I still say that even with a true 30% they could still appear, as they do, to be a full 80% with returns that were then resold without being fixed, and another another group that was simply dumped on the used gun market before Cabela's agreed to take them back for a refund, and then dumped again when the second buyer found what he had bought!

As I said earlier this may be only a seemingly large failure rate, by the counting many twice and even some three times because of the way they were moved in the market. However it was not a conscious misrepresentation, but could surely be a miss counting. I said that in earlier posts.

Still with this particular double rifle I find many of those who got stung are simply embarrassed because they were warned and went ahead and bought one regardless of the warnings, and tend to find fault with the messenger instead of accepting the blame themself. Who they should be cussing is SABATTI!

.......................................................................

Stick,
Are you back in town? If so slide by GNG on Tudor and take a look at the Sabatti DR there for sale ($500 above list)with the dremel treatment.. That looks sickly.
Your's does shoot pretty good! The other guy wasn't so lucky.

Mike, yes I'm back again. I'll have to drop by and take a look at it.

But I'm not disagreeing to any of the people saying that it isn't an acceptable way to do buisness, my only disagreement, was the 80% return rate.

And Mac, it was not my intent to say you were lying at all. I fully beleive that when you said it, you honestly beleive it, I was only asking for info to verify the %. I do not beleive you to be the kind of person to make up such a claim, nor was it my intent to attempt to call you out as such. If that is how you took it, I do apologize. I was simply questioning the math. And I think this is where some of the trouble is. Cabelas is re-selling these "fixed" guns and some without even being sent in to be "fixed" again and again, and so we have a uncertain percentage of truly bad guns, circulating faster than the what I beleive to be, larger percentage of guns which guys buy, are satisfied with, but don't get resold for quite some time.

And no, I do not think even 30% being returned would be acceptable. I was just saying, from the group Sabatti owners both some on this forum, and on a couple others that I browse that seems to be about the % of unsatisfied buyers I've seen. And the guys who've complained the loudest, have been mostly the couple guys who own another double or two, of a better vintage, and then bought a cheaper rifle, and complained when they received a cheaper product.

This could be coupled with the fact that the majority of the shooters I know who have them, have the lower end 9.3 or 45/70 guns, which don't seem to be nearly as numerous in the # of guns that have seen the dremel treatment. Though there were a few.

Well, it finally appears that some accurate information is getting out there on the Sabatti's. The recent American Rifleman review is the most accurate and objective test I've seen so far. Thank goodness. As far as the 80% return rate is concerned, it appears Mac has it backwards. Over 80% of the Sabatti's sold went to satisfied customers and less than 20% were returned. Those figures are supported by our local Cabela's Gun Library and sales have been fairly steady. Of course, that figure may vary a bit according to region and rumors, but "it is what it is." A few returns on some guns that were possibly defective, but overall, many satisfied customers.

The bottom line in the American Rifleman test report says it all; "the Sabatti is a perfectly functional, capable dangerous game rifle whose styling and embellishments are in keeping with double rifles costing much more." Our personal experiences here are exactly that. What else needs to be said? Go have some fun with your Sabatti and happy hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by buford848:


The bottom line in the American Rifleman test report says it all; "the Sabatti is a perfectly functional, capable dangerous game rifle whose styling and embellishments are in keeping with double rifles costing much more." Our personal experiences here are exactly that. What else needs to be said? Go have some fun with your Sabatti and happy hunting.

RRRiiiigggghhhhtttt! We've never seen an inaccurate write up about a product by a guy who is being paid to write about it! If it's in print it must be so.

What else needs to be said?

quote:

Originally posted by AK_Stick:
Mike, yes I'm back again. I'll have to drop by and take a look at it.

But I'm not disagreeing to any of the people saying that it isn't an acceptable way to do buisness, my only disagreement, was the 80% return rate.

And Mac, it was not my intent to say you were lying at all. I fully beleive that when you said it, you honestly beleive it, I was only asking for info to verify the %. I do not beleive you to be the kind of person to make up such a claim, nor was it my intent to attempt to call you out as such. If that is how you took it, I do apologize. I was simply questioning the math. And I think this is where some of the trouble is. Cabelas is re-selling these "fixed" guns and some without even being sent in to be "fixed" again and again, and so we have a uncertain percentage of truly bad guns, circulating faster than the what I beleive to be, larger percentage of guns which guys buy, are satisfied with, but don't get resold for quite some time.

And no, I do not think even 30% being returned would be acceptable. I was just saying, from the group Sabatti owners both some on this forum, and on a couple others that I browse that seems to be about the % of unsatisfied buyers I've seen. And the guys who've complained the loudest, have been mostly the couple guys who own another double or two, of a better vintage, and then bought a cheaper rifle, and complained when they received a cheaper product.

This could be coupled with the fact that the majority of the shooters I know who have them, have the lower end 9.3 or 45/70 guns, which don't seem to be nearly as numerous in the # of guns that have seen the dremel treatment. Though there were a few.

Stick, I fully understand your position on the Sabatti rifles, but blessed Lord, regulation is the most important thing about a double rifle and without proper regulation it makes no difference what lace you tack on a double rifle if it doesn’t regulate it isn’t worth anything, much less $5K. As bad as I hate Remington Mod 700s I would far rather have one of them than any double rifle that wouldn’t regulate right out of the makers box!

It is my fervent belief that most of the people who are happy with their Sabtti are people who have no idea how a proper double rifle is supposed to print on a target.

However I wish the Sabattis had been a little less fancy, and a little more regulated! The problem is two fold, #1 the rifles are regulated on a jig, and for every one that regulates properly, there will likely be 10 that will not. And #2 since the jig thing poked it’s ugly head out of the barrels, the FIX was worse than the JIG!
.............................Now I'm off

quote:

The bottom line in the American Rifleman test report says it all; "the Sabatti is a perfectly functional, capable dangerous game rifle whose styling and embellishments are in keeping with double rifles costing much more." Our personal experiences here are exactly that. What else needs to be said? Go have some fun with your Sabatti and happy hunting.

I seen Bigfoot on TV also must be real right.
...Lets Face facts here if the Sab rifles are so great why did one of their biggest supporters upgrade to a better make..

The Sabattis around Idaho have met with rave reviews..I have shot two of them and was pleased, Jim Brockman gives them good reviews..

I heard the same thing about Merkels early on, there are those who condem based on what so and so said..

I have no dog in this fight but I will be the one to make my own judgment on any rifle out there. Early on most new guns have growing pains. I just sent back a bad Ruger back to the factory and posted how well the dealer handled it, and posts and emails came to me with horror stories about Ruger, heard the same on the internet about Winchesters after every change of hands, but the Ruger and Winchesters are great guns, so you have approach these things with caution and take a lot of what's said with a grain of salt IMO.. It's how they handle the mistakes thats important, but its a pain in the butt to send them back for sure. Like everyone I get mad and aggrivated but when I settle down I realize that anything made by man can fail.

quote:

It is my fervent belief that most of the people who are happy with their Sabtti are people who have no idea how a proper double rifle is supposed to print on a target.
.............................Now I'm off

Mac,
I agree with you that not a SINGLE rifle should have left the company without proper regulation. Onviously the rifle cost a lot less than other rifle makers because they decide to cut corners "here and there".

This is a fact.

I don't know nothing about dobles but I understand what you are saying, BUT, I am a hunter, if a double rifle put two bullets inside a 10" target at 50 yards shooting off hands it's enough for me, and if I can do that at 70 yards better, if the bullets hits different of where it supposed they must hit but inside that target size I don't care. I supposed DR were developed in a given era for shooting at those distances...maybe not ?

I agree that this discussion is nonsense. Sabattis are good for the money, but they will never have the quality of other top brand rifles, we all know that, I least I know it !!

Given the oportunity I will buy another brand, but I will also keep my Sabatti as is a good double rifle for the money.

Is like comparing an ADL Remington and a high valued custom mauser !! One is a hunting tool for 50/70 yards the other is a piece of art.

This is the way I see my Sabatti, as the ADL of the double rifles...a good rifle for the money, not more not less.

Shame on Sabatti for delivering some really bad regulated rifles, they should have never allowed that. Doesn't care if it was one or a thousand.

I remember some really serious problems with some batches of the first Sako Finnlight rifles...the problem was fixed and today they are great rifles...the same with some of the first Blaser 95 rifles...or not ?

Everyone should avoid those bad rifles as a pest but don't put all Sabatti's in the same bag.

Marry Christmas and happy new year to you and all the double rifle lovers !!!

L

quote:

Originally posted by Lorenzo:

quote:

It is my fervent belief that most of the people who are happy with their Sabtti are people who have no idea how a proper double rifle is supposed to print on a target.
.............................Now I'm off

Mac,
I agree with you that not a SINGLE rifle should have left the company without proper regulation. Onviously the rifle cost a lot less than other rifle makers because they decide to cut corners "here and there".

This is a fact.

I don't know nothing about dobles but I understand what you are saying, BUT, I am a hunter, if a double rifle put two bullets inside a 10" target at 50 yards shooting off hands it's enough for me, and if I can do that at 70 yards better, if the bullets hits different of where it supposed they must hit but inside that target size I don't care. I supposed DR were developed in a given era for shooting at those distances...maybe not ?

I agree that this discussion is nonsense. Sabattis are good for the money, but they will never have the quality of other top brand rifles, we all know that, I least I know it !!

Given the oportunity I will buy another brand, but I will also keep my Sabatti as is a good double rifle for the money.

Is like comparing an ADL Remington and a high valued custom mauser !! One is a hunting tool for 50/70 yards the other is a piece of art.

This is the way I see my Sabatti, as the ADL of the double rifles...a good rifle for the money, not more not less.

Shame on Sabatti for delivering some really bad regulated rifles, they should have never allowed that. Doesn't care if it was one or a thousand.

I remember some really serious problems with some batches of the first Sako Finnlight rifles...the problem was fixed and today they are great rifles...the same with some of the first Blaser 95 rifles...or not ?

Everyone should avoid those bad rifles as a pest but don't put all Sabatti's in the same bag.

Marry Christmas and happy new year to you and all the double rifle lovers !!!

L

Thank you Lorenzo for an honest, and thoughtful post. Your rifle is at least good enough for your purposes, and in that case to you it is worth the price, I have no problem with that. However the heart of a double rifle is proper regulation, and it is not acceptable for a maker to cut cost in that area, PERIOD!

Having said that,and as I have said on several occasions in the verious post I've written on this subject, I don't understand why those who did get Sabattis that shot well, returned them for any other reason than to get the money back so they could buy something else that will hold it's re-sale value better. Jorge got one that shot very well, but returned so he could buy a custom VC rifle. That I can understand. What I don't understand is folks who got doubles that didn't shoot well, but still defend the maker who screwed them up!

If, however, like you who simply wants two quick shots at close range and the $5K is justified to you then I have no problem with that. In fact I have no problem with anyone who is willing to pay the price for something that doesn't work properly, that is their business, and their money. My problem is with the maker who simply cut corners in the wrong place. My whole thing was to try to let folks know of the pit-falls in buying one of these things from a blind position.

Though your rifle will put two shots in 10 inches at 50 yds off hand is fine,that could simply be YOUR shooting, but if that is the best it will regulate at 50 yds from a rest then it is not what a double rifle is supposed to do. The fact is, that is on the maker's head not the buyer. Though $5K is not a high price for a double rifle, it is high enough for a buyer to expect the rifle to be at least REGULATED PROPERLY! A double that is pritty but not regulated is worthless, what ever the price!

Gentlemen, and Lorenzo, Sabatti is a company that never built a double rifle before and tried to use the JIG method of regulation that is used in the making of double barreled shotguns! The JIG works fine for shotguns where they only have to make one 30 inch bird shot pattern more or less superempose the other barrel's pattern at 30 yards.

This does not work with a double rifle! You can take two double rifles that are exactly the same in ammo, weight and measurements. and adjust the jig till it regulates one perfectly, and it will not regulate the other identical rifle at all. This has been tried by every maker in history, and it has never worked.

NOW all maker use a jig and a lazer to regulate shotguns, and some my use make a starting point on a double rifle, soft soldering the wedges in place to "START" prpoer trial and error regulation, but the jig is not used after that on that rifle. The problem seems to be that Sabatti stopped with the JIG, and until they hire a regulater who knows how to regulate a double rifle they will continue to have these problems.

Please understand, folks, the problems with the Sabatti doubles are not the buyer's fault is the maker's fault, and it is sure as hell not my fault!

Thanks Mac,

Very interesting the explanation about the regulation process on shotguns and rifles.

A pity my country doesn't allow to import guns on calibers bigger than 6,5 !! My Sabatti was one of four rifles imported on a special permit that will not be given again. They (authorities) allowed it by mistake. So this was the only oportunity for me to own a double rifle.

I would love to have another one in 8x57R or something similar in a very small and light rifle but it will be impossible.

The only way maybe is to buy a DR with an extra pair of shotgun barrels and import it as a shotgun and bring later the rifled barrels inside a pie...

L

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Great post over on 24HR Forum about a great hunt including elephant with a 450NE Sabbati.

Hello, I really do not know if this is the appropriate place to respond of not but I have myself purchased a .470 NE Sabatti, have fitted it as it should be, have over 100 Hornady DGS .500gr softs and solids through the rifle, it shoots spot on, no problems. Am in the process of sorting out some hand loads at the moment. Also have sorted out three other Sabatti .470 NE rifles with no problems found. I also see a favorable two page report on the rifle in the latest edition of the American Rifleman and also there was a good report on the rifle in the South African Magnum Magazine. We shall be using these rifles in May, June & July on elephant, buffalo, lion and hippo in Zambia, Zim and Botswana. There may be problems noted in many rifles and perhaps more so in these rifles. These perhaps are sorted out properly as after 100 rounds of full bore factory loads if we were going to be poked in the eye by the top rib it should have occurred by this time. We have worked on H & H doubles which have mal functioned, Purdey's and other fine guns. Not everyone even with the funds at hand can justify spending over $130,000.00 for a new Royal. My question is does anyone out there have and good loads which they have worked up for the Sabatti .470NE. Does anyone have any experience using IMR 4320 Powder with the .470? We have used IMR 4320 with a custom Mauser in .416 Ruger and had wonderful results up to and including a 200 meter (measured) one shot kill on a very nice cape buffalo.

First let me welcome you to AR, as I see you are a new member here! I think once you get to know
everyone here, you will like this website!

Thank you GOB for the fine first post above! I believe I’ve read that post on another website as well. It seems you and some of your friends have bought some of the good ones, as well from Sabatti.

Congratulations you and your friends are indeed fortunate! Many have not been so lucky.

The best powders for the 470NE are IMR- 4831, H-4831 and H-4831sc, and RE-15. I use H-4831sc ! RE-15 will usually require filler, but none of the 4831 powders require filler.

I have not used the IMR-4320 powders in the 470NE! I prefer a slower burn in these very large volume cases and I don’t like to have to use a lot of filler.
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GOB,

You might want to take a look at The Double Rilfe Bullet of the Future thread. Myself and Michael458 did a lot tests with my Chapuis 470. I don't have a Sabatti 470 but do have a 500 that shoots pretty good. Still giving it a working over.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Great post over on 24HR Forum about a great hunt including elephant with a 450NE Sabbati.

Yeah, but I heard from an unreliable source that the hunter was shooting at a hippo about 90 degrees away from the elephant......

TROUBLEMAKER!