I have 2 new doubles being delivered during the next month - an H&H .500NE and a Heym .375 H&H Flanged. I REALLY want a Westley Richards Droplock, but I just can't think what calibre would be useful, given I have almost everything covered with the 2 above.

I've thought about a .577 and .600, but all reliable reports indicate there is no real advantage over the 500 and a big weight and recoil disadvantage.

I realise this isn't exactly classed as one of life's major problems, but all the same, please take pity on me and help me out

MB:
You are correct in your observations of the .577 and .600. However, you left out the "cool" factor. That has to count for something!
Good luck in your choice and check out the for sale page of my website. I have a few items listed on it: <calpappas.com>
Cheers,
Cal

Thanks Cal, I'll take a look.

Patrick Beyeler is a friend of mine who you know I believe and we were shooting his 4-bore and .577 WR 2 weeks ago. Actually, he was the only one shooting because at 6ft7in I'm not firing anything that big and that short in the stock!

I'm with Cal on the 577/600!

On the other hand, if the 500 is your stopper and your 375 is your PG/soft-skinned DG double, you need a 450-400 with integral scope bases for those times when you just can't decide what to wear.

577 and 600 are certainly COOL. Good enough reason to own one IMO.

Go 577! If you already have a 375 and a 500 then why not 577. I love this caliber and I think it is a step above the 500 for sure. 500 is great but the 577 is better. Get it built light, not over 12 lbs. I will be doing some itneresting tests with a 577 soon that will hopefully show its real WOW factor.

Sam

quote:

Originally posted by srose:
Go 577! If you already have a 375 and a 500 then why not 577. I love this caliber and I think it is a step above the 500 for sure. 500 is great but the 577 is better. Get it built light, not over 12 lbs. I will be doing some itneresting tests with a 577 soon that will hopefully show its real WOW factor.

Sam

A nice idea ... in principle. Let's look at the recoil figures.

.500NE, 11LBS, 500GR bullet, 106GR powder, 2125fps - 87.4ft/lbs & 22.6fps recoil

.577NE, 12LBS, 750GR bullet, 138GR powder, 2020fps - 128.5ft/lbs & 26.25fps recoil

So roughly 50% more recoil and a pound heavier than the .500NE. For what gain?

Maximus,

Of course I'm one of the strong 500NE supporters and I do NOT think you get anything extra in terms of performance on animals under field conditions with the ultra bore weapons. I base that on my own personal experience with both calibers, although I'll admit my experience with the 577 is limited to 1 buffalo and 1 elephant.

However, there is a compelling reason to own and hunt with them. Again, it's the cool factor!

Weight of the guns and ammo is certainly a consideration. But, and I've argued this before when discussing the 470 as compared to the 500, recoil expressed in terms of number of foot lbs generated really doesn't accurately convey the shoot-ability of the calibers.

Some have posted a difference between the 470 and the 500 in terms of recoil as being as much as 20%. That is simple hogwash! I've posted recoil numbers that reflect as low as 4% difference. Even that doesn't accurately reflect the truth. You'll really need to shoulder and shoot a well fit 500 and compare it to a well fit 577 or 600 to accurately make up your mind.

My 577NE weighed 12.5 lbs with the stock weights removed. 14 lbs with them in. Obviously, the recoil generator numbers HAD to go up due to physics alone when shooting the rifle without the weights. However, in terms of perceived recoil, I really could not tell the difference. Not at all I might add!

My 577NE did recoil harder than my current VC 500. This new 500NE weighs 10.25 lbs. But my previous 500NE was a 10.5 Merkel, and that rifle was very similar to the 577NE in terms of recoil. Substantial, but certainly not unpleasant, and definitely not 50% more in the 577NE. Maybe in actual numbers, but not in perceived recoil. The stock dimensions on the Merkel are somewhat small. That has a lot to do with how the recoil is perceived.

I don't know. Maybe it's a bit of the old scenario whereby once the temperature reaches -10, -30 really isn't that much colder. But I'd be willing to make a fair bet that upon actually taking the 500NE and 577NE to the range, you'll come away thinking that 50% increase in recoil is no where close to the actual difference. Before you rule out an ultra bore, if that's where your interest lay, take the "Pepsi Challenge" with two rifles, side by side, at the range on the same day and give them a good comparison.

Just my opinion based on my experiences.

Thanks Todd. I'll be shooting a .577 and I believe a .600 with Mark Sullivan at the Heym Challenge in Germany in 2 weeks. This will be VERY interesting because neither gun is likely to be long enough in the stock for my 6ft7in frame. We'll see!

MB

I had a Westley Richards "Best" droplock .500ne made for me in the late 80's, fabulous rifle. I also had a Army Navy 13lb. .577ne, the .577 is a definite step up in power, but you can only kill something so dead! With that being said, and with a .375 and a .500ne already on the way, why not consider a Westley Richards droplock in a scoped .300 flanged? You will get the pleasure of one of the finest, most unique double rifles ever made, and one the the best dbl. rifle chamberings you can own. Let's see, a.300 flanged, a .375 flanged, a .500ne, all in super quality rifles, sounds to me like you're about good to go.

Safariman, welcome to AR, and it looks like your tastes in fine rifles will keep you pretty active on these forums.

Max, there is something missing in the recoil calculations listed above. For me, and others I've heard from as well, the 577 is easier and more comfortable to shoot than many 500s I've owned. I'm not sure if it is the velocity of the recoil or some other factor, but the 577 recoils with a big slow push that rocks you back, rather than the sharp jab of many other rifles...they don't move you back, but they deliver a jolt I find more offensive than the roll of the 577.

If you shoot with Mark, you may want to bring a slip-on leather recoil pad. They attach with a velcro flap, and can be had in different thicknesses. You can even cut up pieces of cardboard in the shape of the butt and put them inside the slip-on to give even greater LOP.

I'm still not sure about scopes on doubles. I don't object to them but for me a double rifle is a close-quarters or moving target weapon and that means open sights or a red-dot sight.

My Heym will have the rib cut for a Docter mount which seems like a great idea on a double. For running wild boar I think it will be perfect.

I like to think each of my guns is built for a purpose. There is some crossover of course, but I just don't know what the .577 will give me over the .500, except more weight and recoil. A .470 would be nice, but it's too close to the .500. hadn't really considered a .30 calibre double.

Got no use at all for the 470. As you said, it's too close to the 500 and the 500 just outclasses it across the board. Ammo availability may have been a deciding factor 10 years ago but not today!

Beibs' comments about shooting the 577 are exactly in line with my earlier points about the recoil numbers not telling the full story. I don't find the 577's recoil to be an issue.

With the smaller bore double rifles, properly regulated, they don't have to be defined as short range weapons. I took several small antelope and a warthog at well over 100 yards with my 9.3X74R. Scoped with the Trijicon 1.25x4 as seen here:

That's a nice looking gun Todd.

The other problem with scopes is stock fit. A double, in my opinion, should fit correctly in terms of eye alignment when using iron sights. The Docter red-dot sight is so low it's almost the same height as fixed sights, but a scope is going to require the lifting of your cheek a good inch or more. Not so much of an issue on a light recoiling rifle such as your 9.3x74R but not great on anything bigger.

You would have to have it built to spec for a scope. Luckily for me, with the Chapuis being "off the shelf" the comb was just a bit too high. A common complaint with these rifles. So the scope made it exactly right in terms of stock fit. I CAN shoot it without the scope, but I really have to press the cheek into the comb.

Anyway, point being, with that 1.25 low power, and now Trijicon makes an even lower 1.0, shooting with both eyes open is the way to go which allows for those close quarters, moving targets you were speaking of. Then of course, you can crank up the power for long shots. It gives you the option of both and really increases the utility of the double rifle.

Just trying to throw out some alternate ideas for you as opposed to going larger, you might find going smaller in caliber to be easier to justify in terms of an additional double rifle.

Max, the biggest reason I can think of is that if Todd has two double rifles, then you need AT LEAST three :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Max, the biggest reason I can think of is that if Todd has two double rifles, then you need AT LEAST three :-)

I've got no H&H Royal brother!! That one commands respect!!

Go with the 450 3 1/4. You may find you use it more than the other two, it's the perfect double rifle!

476WR
It matters not that it is similar to the 500NE because it is Westley Richards.
Alternately here is one that comes without the wait;
http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100309509

Go smaller.....

.240 or .300 Flanged

quote:

Originally posted by 470Evans:
Go with the 450 3 1/4. You may find you use it more than the other two, it's the perfect double rifle!

Totally agree. When it comes to penetration it will outshine both. That said, being you have two two already, I'd go all the way up to the 600 on the upper end, or something really cool like a 300 H&H Flanged or the 333 Jeffreys.

I have always fancied a double in a smaller calibre for medium to small size antelope and the odd warthog. Something in the 300 calibre.

Sounds like you don't want another excuse you just want ideas............ Being a big ole boy, you should just jump off the deep end and try a .700 Nitro in an H&H
JMHO

I would get Westley Richards to build you nice little double in 7x65r, but appreciate that's not a traditional British calibre, in which case go with a 300 h&h flanged. Whilst you are about it get them to build a pair of shot barrels as well.

Or just for the heLl of it, go for a 22 hornet double.

quote:

Originally posted by srose:

Go 577!

577NE; no contest in a WR droplock!

I've heard W/R drop-locks CAN'T have intercepting sears. Is that TRUE?

My vote for MAX - Get a 577 NE, sell your 500 NE and replace it with 476 W/R.

With todays powders 3 inch brass is MORE THAN ENOUGH length. Those 3 calibers,
(.375, .476, .577) are pretty cool I think. I gotta ask, what's your length of pull? 18"

quote:

I gotta ask, what's your length of pull? 18"

Haha. Not that bad. 15 3/4" on a double and 16" on a shotgun

Get a bore rifle. Shoot Patricks Holland 10. An 8 or 10 would be nice. Real stopping power...

Hello Maximus:

A 30 Cal be it in the traditional 300HH flanged or the more modern 30 R Blaser in your choise of a double, will be your best bet. It will be tons of fun and a breeze to shoot and will help you practice a lot without breaking the bank, also it can double as your APG or NA game rifle with a scope or without.


Best regards

Malek
Good shooting/hunting and God's best.

The only excuse that you need for another double is that you want it!

465H&H

Max, my suggestion would be a H&H Royal chambered in .300 Super Thirty or .275 Magnum Flanged. I owned a .275 Royal back in 1981. It was made in 1923. Never ever should have let that one go! You might also consider one in .303