Ya know, even though the 45-70 isn't a DG cartridge, it still should deserve a place in the AR Reloading Pages. From my experience with the Baikal and Sabatti 92, I've found some good loads that regulate very well and I'm sure there are are some other folks out there wanting some good "start here and see how she shoots, then do this loads". I fully expect storm clouds to be brewing with this post, but for those of us who simply can't, or won't afford a REAL DG double, it would be nice to see.

You are right. A 45-70 IS a real double rifle; doesn't have to be a high end H&H 470 to qualify.
Now, I do question the validity of the Over and Under "double rifles". I consider those "rifles with double barrels", not Double Rifles.
THAT will get hate mail for sure.

Many don't realize but the English had many versions of their .450 bpe case. The 3 1/4" survived but many shorter ones were used that were approximately the same as the .45-70 but with a lighter bullet.
I had a .45-70 Winchester '86 light weight takedown and used 58 grains of 3031 and a 405 grain bullet for 1975 fps and it was a big game rifle, no doubt. This is too hot for a double, but it illustrates the potential of a short case.
Cal

Hi Cal. I recall you saying that you had a few different loads for the 45-70 and for me to PM you but I Don' know how to do that (new to all this hi tech stuff) . Thought of asking Shootaway but figured he had enough on his mind with just a hat on. How about an email?

You can do it; go to the top of this page and hit New. Choose, Private Message and go from there. The recipient will get an e-mail alerting him that he has an AR PM. It is easier than e-mailing. I will PM you so you can see how it works.

Gonna give the lead bullets one more chance in my Sabatti 45-70. Plain base 300 gr. Over 49 gr IMR-4198 are 6 inches apart at 50. Same charge with 300 JHP are 1 1/2. Will try 300 gr. Gas checked next. Will advise.

DPCD, I went the area you said but when I hit contacts or any of the boxes nothing happens. Can't get my keyboard to pop up. (No wise cracks, please)

Once you click on the "New Private Message" thing, You will see a little phrase; "find new buddies", and if you click on that, it will take you to a block where you type in the AR user name of the person you want to send a PM to. For example, I typed in quarterman, and you popped up. I sent you a test PM so you can see what they are.

Just click on Cals screen name and when the box drops down, click on "Invite Cal to a private Conversation" then just type away. It is really that easy.

As an option, just click on his name and the box will pop up.

QM,

just go to the top and see a box that says you have a PM. Click to open it.

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by quartermain:
Hi Cal. I recall you saying that you had a few different loads for the 45-70 and for me to PM you but I Don' know how to do that (new to all this hi tech stuff) . Thought of asking Shootaway but figured he had enough on his mind with just a hat on. How about an email?

pappas@mtaonline.net

Cheers,
Cal

See Cal, you missed it, more comments on PM'ing someone than the validity of the .45/70!

Cal didn't miss anything, Crazy Horse. I still believe my 500 gr. 4570 slugs will stop ANTHING in north america with a frontal brain shot. But as you say, our opinions are worth dog shit. Yours, too?

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
As an option, just click on his name and the box will pop up.

ISS is correct! Just click on the posters name in the upper left hand corner of his post. That will bring up his profile, then look at the bottom of wording in the middle of the page where you will see "Send a Personal message to this member". Click on that and a reply page will pop up! Write and send!
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quote:

Originally posted by quartermain:
Thought of asking Shootaway but figured he had enough on his mind with just a hat on.

Probably the best one liner in the history of AR.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:

quote:

Originally posted by quartermain:
Thought of asking Shootaway but figured he had enough on his mind with just a hat on.

Probably the best one liner in the history of AR.

Agreed...

quote:

Originally posted by quartermain:

I fully expect storm clouds to be brewing with this post, but for those of us who simply can't, or won't afford a REAL DG double, it would be nice to see.

Quartermain, there is nothing wrong with owning a double rifle that was not made for hunting dangerous game. Any double rifle is worth owning as long as it works the way it is supposed to! I own a few double rifles and some of them are certainly not dangerous game calibers. However, all of them have their purpose, and I use them all for that purpose.

When discussing the 45-70 in a double rifle or any other rifle type it will handle anything that walks the land in North America, with proper loads! Certainly it is not the best choice for some of the big boys in Africa but would certainly beat a sharp stick if that was all you had!

...Enjoy you rifles for what they were made for and disregard negative comments. As long as your rifles are reliable, and used for there intended purpose you will enjoy them, for they DO have two barrels and that is something in it's self!
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I use a trim .45-70 double rifle when tracking down wounded plains game in the bosveld. Due to the brush, shots are never more than 50 meters The bane of every PH is the client who can't shoot straight. A 405 grain Hornady does the job. Dispatched a wounded lion with one shot to the base of the neck...however, was not on foot...finished off from back of Toyota Land Cruiser. Know your limitations. If you want to shoot hot loads, the Marlin Guide Gun works well.

I own both an H&H Royal, and a Baikal .45-70 amongst others if that says anything. The Baikal is a real double rifle, albeit crudely fashioned, but apparently tough. I'd rather pay $600 for a Baikal than $3000 for a Sabatti, if that makes sense. It is what it is, the Baikal, don't try to hot rod the loads and be pleased you have a double you can afford to beat up. Use it hard and often, and put it away wet without worries. There's a lot to be said for that.

I agree with your assessment of the Baikal, evan though mine is an exceptional shooter. Have it regulated with 500 gr. cast bullets and love the thump I get on both ends. But I hope more folks will give the IFG Sabattis a closer look if wanting a nicer appearing double. The wood and engraving on mine is very nice, and with the right load is very accurate according to the standard parameters of regulation. Its no k-gun or searcy or anything like the top line doubles, but to the untrained eye & hand and compared to the Baikal, its a definite step up.

To be fair, the Krieghoff, Merkel, and base Searcy are entry level doubles, a long ways from top of the line. They are simply the first high quality doubles as you follow the price scale up. Baikals represent a very good value, and are a good way to determine if you like doubles. Sabattis I wasn't impressed with but have handled them only, you'll have better experience than I on owning and shooting one.

Well...other than the unmitigated joy of owning a dangerous game, double rifle I have absolutely no practical use for one. Nor can I afford a top of the line, new...or even old...DR. Howsomever...my ancient German double in 43 Mauser and an almost equally ancient Reilley in 500 BPE give me no end of happiness. Both are also quite practical for my needs. So a 45-70 in a DR, you betcha!!! I can't imagine any double rifle not being a heck of a lot of fun.

I agree with Angus in that the Searcy , Merkal and others are entry level doubles, but in my area of Pa, ANY double is rare and the folks that have seen them/know anything about them are even rarer. But I stand by my assessment of the Newer Sabattis for some one who desires a "pretty" double to show friends and the uninformed(Shootaway?)the Sabattis are a good purchase. And with the right load,as with any double,they will shoot with the best of them. OK,Guys, come and get me for that statement, but I have load data for the Sabattis and the Baikal that will give a good starting point for anyone trying to get them to shoot.

Quartermain,

Any updates in the 300 gr. cast with gas checks?

Eric

My 300 gr. cast gas check bullets over 49 gr. IMR-4198 print POA at 25 yds but 2.5 inches apart. At 50 they are an inch apart. Would probably cross at 100 or so. Any way, they are close enough for practice shooting at my range and pretty much duplicate the recoil of THE load in that gun-same powder charge but Hornady 300 gr. JHP. This comes out at 2160 avg. and pretty much duplicates the Leverevolution load the gun was supposedly regulated with. The accuracy is for me downright scary-6 shots at 50-rl,rl,rl at bore distance apart when I do my part.I did have to fashion a new rear sight for my gun, but it is now at POA at 25, 2.5 inches high at 50, and on at about 125.