Is any body useing a filler called Pufflon
It is a granular filler you dispense with a powder measure.
Do you need a wad between the powder and filler?

JD

If using Darcon is a hassle because you have to weigh each tuft, then putting a card between the powder and the filler to keep the two from mixing is worse, just my opine.

For now the easiest is using foam plugs from Kynoch. I'm working on some foam cutters, just no machine time at my place.

JD, do a search and you'll find what you need.

I'm not in agreement with Rusty on this one. You don't have to weigh dacron, at least after the first case or two. The NRA cast bullet manual makes the same observation re: weighing dacron. The density of the dacron is so low that a "pinch" of it weighs next to nothing. What you need to be sure of is that the dacron completely fills the case between the powder and base of the bullet. The reason for this caution is that some have found the filler "ringing" the rifle chamber similar to that which occurs with an obstruction. If the dacron fills the case up to the base of the bullet, this doesn't happen. DON'T pack it in, just push it into the case and it will fluff up and hold the powder in place with no movement or mixing of the powder & dacron at all as far as I can tell. I'd guess a couple of grains is the most you might use to fill your case. With a NE case or other large case with minimal powder, and a reduced load, or using a relatively fast powder that doesn't completely fill the case (or nearly so) you might use more dacron to hold the powder against the primer.

Puff lon appars to be the same, or nearly the same as the formerly avaiable Winchester Grex. You can buy the same stuff from Ballistic Products or any other place that specializes in shotgun reloading as it is used as a filler between pellets to reduce pellet deformation during its' passage down the barrel. It sometimes well in closing up groups, but my experience is it is essentially the same as Kapok or Dacron in both use and effect. Generally, if you select the correct powder for full power loads, you don't need a filler of any kind. FWIW DuaneB

I use 5gns of dacron ontop of my RL-15 470NE loads. It really doesn't take that long to pinch and set it on the scale. It doesn't have to be exact, but it doesn't take much to keep them all about the same.
I normally don't load with a load block. I have a Dillon 550 and use it for most everything. I did get a conversion kit for the 470, but you have to replace the base plate for the 470's. So I use a Lee classic cast press instead. What I like about he Dacron is that it keeps the powder in the case if you happen to knock it over.

You can get a small digital scale to use instead of a powder balance.
Awhile back I found some pretty good inexpensive digital scales with .1gn accuracy and sold a few cases of them.

This is a 50 gram or about 750gns.


This one is 100 grams and 1500ish grains.

Not all of the small scales live up to their advertised specs. I ended up buying one each of about 10 different scales. Some would go up in 2gn increments when they were supposed to be .1gn. Some would display the .1gn digit, but go up in .2gn jumps. A couple of others would display the .1gn digit, but go up in 2.5gn jumps.
I setteled on the 2 above as they did go up in reliable .1gn increments. Another thing about he small scales is they need to warm up first before you start useing them. Turn it on for a couple of minutes while you're setting up your stuff and be sure to zero it periodically.
The ones I had were around $20-25. I think that Midway has some small scales now, but I don't know how they perform.
I only have my 2 personal ones left.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=713372
Here is an inexpensive one from Midway for $30. The description says it displays to 1/10th grain. That sounds suspect to me as it doesn't say .1gn accuracy and repeatability.

Oops I guess we were talking about fillers.
The ear plug idea seems to be a good one. Has anyone heard of any problems resulting from useing them?

quote:

Originally posted by DuaneB:
I'm not in agreement with Rusty on this one. You don't have to weigh dacron, at least after the first case or two. The NRA cast bullet manual makes the same observation re: weighing dacron. The density of the dacron is so low that a "pinch" of it weighs next to nothing. What you need to be sure of is that the dacron completely fills the case between the powder and base of the bullet. The reason for this caution is that some have found the filler "ringing" the rifle chamber similar to that which occurs with an obstruction. If the dacron fills the case up to the base of the bullet, this doesn't happen. DON'T pack it in, just push it into the case and it will fluff up and hold the powder in place with no movement or mixing of the powder & dacron at all as far as I can tell. I'd guess a couple of grains is the most you might use to fill your case. With a NE case or other large case with minimal powder, and a reduced load, or using a relatively fast powder that doesn't completely fill the case (or nearly so) you might use more dacron to hold the powder against the primer.

I consider this post downright irresponsible. It is certainly a recipe for how to do it if you want problems with Dacron.

quote:

You don't have to weigh dacron, at least after the first case or two.

That's how the problems with dacron happen. Little in loading the large bore nitros for double rifles is non-critical, especially so fillers. It's utterly impossible to keep the dacron uniform without weighing it. In my doubles, one grain up or down makes a noticable difference, and without weighing it you can't see the difference in the wad of dacron. ALWAYS weigh Dacron fill.

quote:

DON'T pack it in, just push it into the case and it will fluff up and hold the powder in place with no movement or mixing of the powder & dacron at all as far as I can tell.

DO pack it in some. If the dacron isn't adequately compressed, the air space is not filled, which risks both a chamber ring and powder migration.

quote:

I'd guess a couple of grains is the most you might use to fill your case.

That's a good example of what happens with this approach. With the most common powder used in the .470 that requires a filler - RL 15 - two grains isn't even a good start. I'd rather shoot RL 15 in the .470 with no filler at all (which I would not do) than I would with 2 grains of dacron. Too little is the worst mistake you can make. Lar45 is right, 5 grains is in the ball park.

JD, I've used Dacron fill in DRs almost exclusively for almost 20 years with perfect results. It's easy to use and, as long as proper procedures are followed, its foolproof. In developing loads for others, I've also used the Kynoch foam wads (at the owners request) with no problems. Dacron would seem to be less hassle.

I would never use any granualated filler in a large bore DR, as their track record in that application is not good. Kynoch has done more research on fillers in the large flanged nitros than anybody, and they use a foam plug in everything .400 up in their factory ammo. Dacron is less hassle and also has a proven track record. Take your pick.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Here is the web site to the product I am speaking,I spoke to the inventor and read the articles shown on his site.Its made from wood with a mix of moly and other lubes. You drop your powder and fill to case mouth either by hand or with a powder measure. http://www.pufflon.com/index.html
JD

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
If using Darcon is a hassle because you have to weigh each tuft, then putting a card between the powder and the filler to keep the two from mixing is worse, just my opine.

For now the easiest is using foam plugs from Kynoch. I'm working on some foam cutters, just no machine time at my place.

Rusty,
I would like one of your cutters in 45 cal when you get some made. I cant believe the boss can't get machine time fore a home project.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by J D:
Here is the web site to the product I am speaking,I spoke to the inventor and read the articles shown on his site.Its made from wood with a mix of moly and other lubes. You drop your powder and fill to case mouth either by hand or with a powder measure. http://www.pufflon.com/index.html
JD

I'm familiar with Pufflon, JD.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

400 Nitro is correct.

Always weigh it and be sure it is compressed between the bullet base and the powder.

With Nitro for Black type loads in my 450 No2 I use 15 grains of Dacron.

Full power loads I used 5 grains. I now use foam plugs I cut out with a sharpened [chamfer tool] 50 BMG case. The foam plugs are also compressed.

The 5 grains of Dacron I use in my 470 loads is for a 500gn cast bullet. It has a short nose of .4", so more of the bullet is in the case. I have some 500gn Barnes XLCs and the canalure is much further down so more dacron might be needed with different seating deapths.

When I first started loading, the most common amount I found was 10gns. So depending on the bullet seating deapth, you may need to adjust how much you use.

FWIW, I use 2gns more RL-15 to get the same velocity with the 500 XLCs and they shoot to the same point as my 500gn cast bullets.
It looks like with the shorter over all length with the cast bullets, that the 470NE might just squeeze into an M17 action. I was thinking of makeing one up just to use as a pressure gun with the strain guage systems.

What type of foam are you cutting for the fillers and where can it be purchased. I use dacron and have to pick it up after each trip to the range with the 470NE

gi
I have tested 3 types of foam. They differed in length and in their "firmness".
They were all compressed between the bullet base and the powder.

I could not detect ANY difference between the three.If you can buy a sheet or two of the foam that goes inside a Pelican rifle case, it will work just fine.

Thanks, I am going to see if I can find some.

I did two test with the puff-lon.
Test one
I filled a small glass jar with water, drop in one scoup 12 hrs later it was floating high and dry.I shook it real hard. couple hours later
1/2 fell to bottom of the jar. It does not seem to wick moisture.

Test 2
I filled a small lab bottle with H4831 and put several scoups of puff-lon in bottle up into the neck ,compressed the mix and taped the stopper in place. I droped the bottle in my vibertory cleaner, 15 min later there was no migration into the powder.

I may give it a try this weekend.

JD

I use an arch type gasket punch to cut foam plugs. They are available at industrial hardware stores. Just pick the punch that cuts a plug slightly larger than the ID of the case. Dave