This just got taken down off the Africa Forum wrong place I supose.
Was it you Saeed ? Doesent seem your style ?



Found this on Nitro Express

http://dockets.justia.com/dock...2100/case_id-103980/


Here's a copy/paste from the linked page.
Visit the link for more details (if/when it works for you)


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wieland v. John Rigby & Co. [Gunmakers], Inc. et al
Plaintiff: Terry Wieland
Defendant: John Rigby & Co. [Gunmakers], Inc. and Geoffrey D. Miller

Case Number: 4:2009cv02100
Filed: December 23, 2009

Court: Missouri Eastern District Court
Office: St. Louis Office [ Court Info ]
County: Jefferson

Nature of Suit: Torts - Injury - Assault, Libel, and Slander
Cause: 28:1332 Diversity-Libel,Assault,Slander
Jurisdiction: Diversity
Jury Demanded By: Plaintiff
Amount Demanded: $75,000.00



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Given Millers behaviour I am suprised it took so long.

quote:

Originally posted by Mintyman:
This just got taken down off the Africa Forum wrong place I supose.
Was it you Saeed ? Doesent seem your style ?



Found this on Nitro Express

http://dockets.justia.com/dock...2100/case_id-103980/


Here's a copy/paste from the linked page.
Visit the link for more details (if/when it works for you)


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wieland v. John Rigby & Co. [Gunmakers], Inc. et al
Plaintiff: Terry Wieland
Defendant: John Rigby & Co. [Gunmakers], Inc. and Geoffrey D. Miller

Case Number: 4:2009cv02100
Filed: December 23, 2009

Court: Missouri Eastern District Court
Office: St. Louis Office [ Court Info ]
County: Jefferson

Nature of Suit: Torts - Injury - Assault, Libel, and Slander
Cause: 28:1332 Diversity-Libel,Assault,Slander
Jurisdiction: Diversity
Jury Demanded By: Plaintiff
Amount Demanded: $75,000.00



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Given Millers behaviour I am suprised it took so long.

I would want to hear what is going on!
Hans

What happened?

well it doesn't have anything to do with african hunting does it

I wonder if Terry will still portray the CA Rigby doubles as the Cat's Ass. It was obvious to me after reading his book that Terry was pushing the guns. I wonder what he was getting back in return?

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:
I wonder if Terry will still portray the CA Rigby doubles as the Cat's Ass. It was obvious to me after reading his book that Terry was pushing the guns. I wonder what he was getting back in return?

My thoughts exactly! Gives little credibility to anything he says now about the London firm as well. Its all bullshit in the end.

quote:

Originally posted by SINNER:

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:
I wonder if Terry will still portray the CA Rigby doubles as the Cat's Ass. It was obvious to me after reading his book that Terry was pushing the guns. I wonder what he was getting back in return?

My thoughts exactly! Gives little credibility to anything he says now about the London firm as well. Its all bullshit in the end.

I think this is a perfect example of a habit most gun writers have. They write about things they do not understand, and folks take their wrtings to be gospel simply because they are gun writers. Very few Americans, really understand double rifles, and Gun writers are at the top of that list, with 90% of the well known gunsmiths, and well know bolt rifle shooters/so-called handloading developers.

I would say that the people on this website, and NE website by percentage have a far better understanding of double rifles, and how they work than most of the list of folks above.

Apparently a libel action concerning some published comments. In front of District Judge Jean Hamilton. I am acquainted with the attorney for Wieland. I have practiced before this judge for many years.


Dutch

This ($75000.00) should just about cover the cost of one of those Rigby doubles also known as the Cat's Ass Rigby. Makes you wonder doesn’t it.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:



I think this is a perfect example of a habit most gun writers have. They write about things they do not understand, and folks take their wrtings to be gospel simply because they are gun writers. Very few Americans, really understand double rifles, and Gun writers are at the top of that list,

I would say that the people on this website, and NE website by percentage have a far better understanding of double rifles, and how they work than most of the list of folks above.

That is one profound statement

The lawsuit is a libel action in which Wieland alleges that Miller made a false statement, on a website, concerning Wieland's purchase/acquisition of one of Miller's firearms. Wieland is alleging Miller's comments as false, according to the lawsuit.


Dutch

quote:

Originally posted by Dutch44:
The lawsuit is a libel action in which Wieland alleges that Miller made a false statement, on a website, concerning Wieland's purchase/acquisition of one of Miller's firearms. Wieland is alleging Miller's comments as false, according to the lawsuit.

Thanks, Dutch. That's what I thought it was about. It looks like it's about what was posted on the americanrifleman.org blog.

Here is the article by Cameron Hopkins about the two Rigby's posted on the blog:

http://www.americanrifleman.or...e.aspx?id=1974&cid=3

And here is Miller's response:

http://www.americanrifleman.or....aspx?id=2011&cid=25

He says Wieland has a rifle that he will neither return nor pay for. That would tend to piss one off if not true.
------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

that will take about two minutes to substantiate one way or the other in court. Serial Number of the DR and a copy of the delivery paperwork to an FFL holder should do it. We know how anal California is about tracking firearms. Subpoena the bank records of both and enter into the record. Somebody either paid for it or not, and somebody still has the rifle, or not. That said, I would love to be there to hear that days testimony.

Rich

I suspect it will get into the question of whether Weiland was sold the rifle or loaned it. If sold, whether he was supposed to pay for the rifle with cash or services. If services, whether he has delivered them or not. Perhaps whether the rifles was supposed to be payment for services previously rendered. That would make it a contract dispute at its core.

Determine the results of the contract dispute and that will determine whether Miller was telling the facts or not. Might not settle the issue of whether, if Miller's comment is not fact, it was intentional mistatement or, if so, the issue of whther Weiland is a "public figure."

JPK

Will you repeat that one more time?

Quoting Wieland:

"Altogether, my conclusion is that the new London Rigby is very much for real, and they are making genuine products,” the author of six books and an expert on the English gun trade concluded.

As journalistic fortune would have it, Wieland also visited “California Rigby” so he could make a comparison. "I was shocked," Wieland said. "There was a total lack of traditional gunmaking."

I am still of that observation, that Senor Millers DRs could be some of the finest swat-rifles ever made, fitted to Beverly Hills patrol units

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
That is one profound statement

.................

Mac,

guess you hadn't heard: Phil and Terry exchange handwritten Christmas Cards every year!

Rich
har-har!!

Mac,

You paint with much too wide a brush.

Idaho,

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

TT

quote:

Originally posted by Tsquare2:
Mac,

You paint with much too wide a brush.

TT

Opinions very, and It seems we disagree!

If the brush didn't get paint on you,why the concern?

. . . I would not assume that the brush did not inadvertently, unintentionally and unjustifiably splatter a little paint on the gentleman. I realize that you qualified the statement with "most" so you did not intend to pick up "all" but perhaps the gentleman takes issue even with the word "most". Just a thought.

I believe that Mac was stating that there is a good knowledge base of AR individuals about double rifles. I would agree!

I have a question. So if a guy does a little research that anyone could do, then he rights a book based on his research, then puts in a few opinions of his own. Does this make him an expert.
If there is anyone that you should listen to on this forum about old English rifles, it's Mark (400 Nitro Express). He could take both persons in question to school.

quote:

If there is anyone that you should listen to on this forum about old English rifles, it's Mark (400 Nitro Express). He could take both persons in question to school.

I agree.



Cheers
Tinker

As do I.

Dutch

Is there anyone out there who lives in Missouri near the Eastern District Court? Terry's actual suit is a public record and anyone could drop by next week and get a copy and post it here for everyone to read.

So American Rifleman pulled the blog comments of Hopkins and?or Weeweeland, but Miller's self-righteously riotously indignant statements are still accessible?
Sorry I missed the former.
Here is the latter:
**********************************************

In reference to article on the American Rifleman blog concerning “Rigby vs Rigby; the Proof is in the Gun”. I like to state for the record that both Mr. Hopkins and Mr. Wieland have personal issues with me and for that reason and no other have decided to defame John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers), Inc., its products and its personnel when the facts completely negate their statements in the blog. If one wishes to see how we regulate our guns I would refer them to Winter 2002 Double Gun Journal which deals exclusively with how we regulate double rifles.

Further, I would refer you to the Shooting Times Guide to Accuracy published this year with an article written by Terry Wieland who essentially cites us (Rigby) as the expert on regulating double guns. Further I would also refer you to Mr. Wieland’s book on Dangerous Game Rifles, page 6A where he states that the rifle we built him is “uncompromising Best Quality rifle”. Which, incidentally, he has refused to return or pay for.

The fact is we are considered the Premier Rifle Builder in this country and perhaps the world and have many letters from many satisfied clients to that effect. While I refuse to lower myself to their level and issue a bunch of personal attacks I would welcome anyone who has any curiosity about this situation to contact me at John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers), Inc. 805.227.4236 and I would be glad to discuss any aspect of the situation with you.

As a final word we do have every possible example of the name registered in the United States and the U.K. and have filed suit both in Federal Court here and in the English Court system ……documentation is a matter of public record.

Geoff Miller
Managing Director
John Rigby & Co. (Gunmakers), Inc.



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DRG says: "Kiss my liberal grits!"

Wieland and Miller are acting like a couple of teenage girls, IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Wieland and Miller are acting like a couple of teenage girls, IMHO.

+1, I have been meaning to post the same thing for several days. Neither side comes out a winner in these sorts of pissing contests.

quote:

The fact is we are considered the Premier Rifle Builder in this country and perhaps the world

"Premier Rifle Builder"?

Excuse me? By whom? Have I just returned from a long journey outside of our solar system?

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Wieland and Miller are acting like a couple of teenage girls, IMHO.

That’s funny. Rumor has it that Terry's girlfriend gave him the boot and then shacked up with Geoff and is still there today. I guess this all came to a head at the SCI convention when Terry confronted Geoff in the CA Rigby booth. Word is that it became quite the public spectacle. If this is all true (I was not at the show but heard from a very good source) I expect there is quite a bit more to this spat than what appears on the surface. I bet this trial will be a good show!

Soooo…regardless of the quality of the product, Geoff obviously appears to know how to handle his gun…..at least from a woman’s point of view!

quote:

Originally posted by ron vella:

quote:

The fact is we are considered the Premier Rifle Builder in this country and perhaps the world

"Premier Rifle Builder"?

Excuse me? By whom? Have I just returned from a long journey outside of our solar system?

In Terry's own words from Dangerous Game rifles "This rifle is an uncompromising 'best' quality rifle" commenting on a double built by Rigby in California.

It seems that at one time Terry agreed with Geoff

Oh My!

quote:

Originally posted by ROSCOE:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Wieland and Miller are acting like a couple of teenage girls, IMHO.

That’s funny. Rumor has it that Terry's girlfriend gave him the boot and then shacked up with Geoff and is still there today. I guess this all came to a head at the SCI convention when Terry confronted Geoff in the CA Rigby booth. Word is that it became quite the public spectacle. If this is all true (I was not at the show but heard from a very good source) I expect there is quite a bit more to this spat than what appears on the surface. I bet this trial will be a good show!

Soooo…regardless of the quality of the product, Geoff obviously appears to know how to handle his gun…..at least from a woman’s point of view!

...oooohh my..!



The spectacle.
The drama.
What a tangled web's been woven...



Cheers
Tinker

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Tsquare2:
Mac,

You paint with much too wide a brush.

TT

Opinions very, and It seems we disagree!

If the brush didn't get paint on you,why the concern?

Mike, and all guests here the quotes above are my own, and I think I need to comment on my participation in this thread!
After some thought, and some off line communications with one member of AR, it has been made clear to me that my “WIDE BRUSH” comment was ill advised, and could have been better phrased to get my meaning across. Though the base meaning wasn’t made clear, by my post and surely jolted some nerves because of that fact, I could make the real message clear, but in the interest of my not hijacking this thread further, I will simply fade into the back ground, and leave it to the rank and file of those still posting on this thread.
………………………….I sincerely regret the wording of my post if not the real meaning of it!
…………………………………………..

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
Wieland and Miller are acting like a couple of teenage girls, IMHO.

..are NOT!

A lady switching bed partners has historically created problems. You might recall a lady named Helen...

I dated a Helen once. School guidance counselor and Phd Psychologist. Man did that make for some interesting disagreements. My one chance to be a Boy-Toy and I blew it. Literally, and figuratively...

Rich

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I dated a Helen once. School guidance counselor and Phd Psychologist. Man did that make for some interesting disagreements. My one chance to be a Boy-Toy and I blew it. Literally, and figuratively...

Rich

Rich,

You're so colorful! I love it!

Brett

That's what you can parlay a well misspent youth into by age sixty: colorful.

thanks,

Rich