I am getting closer to buying my first double however, I have not even fired one yet!

I'm am trying to decide on a caliber, but I am a bit concerned with recoil. I will use it for cull elephant and buffalo...hopefully more than once in my life.

I am thinking about:

450 NE
470 NE
500 NE

How would you fellas compare the recoil of these calibers in their resecptive double rifles?

What are the firing sensations like, etc

The only big bore guns I have fired so far are a 416 Rigby and a 375 H&H, both bolt actions. I did not have any problem with either one.

I have also fired hundreds of shotgun slugs in light shotguns with no problems either.

What am I looking at here?

Thanks

If you have no porblems with the 416 Rigby and the 375 H&H then you can handle the 450 or the 470 with no problems.

The 500 NE is a big step up in recoil IMHO, especially as most New made doubles tend to be too light for calibre.

If you feel the 416 Rigby is near the limit of your recoil, then get a 450/400.

How old are you???
If your eyes have a problem with iron sights, then get a 450/400 with a scope in QD mounts.

I have stepped up to a 470 Heym with no problem!
As stated by Leopardtrack if you are not having any problems shooting a 416 Rigby will not have any problems with a 470 n.e.. Remember 10 to 10 1/2 lbs vers 8 - 8 1/2 lbs.

500ne is a level above the others,
especially in lighter guns.

Any will kill if the bullet is placed right.

Shock power really starts at the 470 and up,
with the 500 having heaps of it.

Agree with the other posters.....I have shot all 3. Given the SAME STOCK CONFIGURATION, etc., the 450 and 470 are essentially identical. The 500, on the other hand, will boot you noticably harder. Some newer doubles in 500 are actually LIGHTER than the 470/450 class....then you REALLY notice the difference.
They definitly kick more than the 416 Rigby, but the Rigby, in my opine, kicks a bit "faster"...if that makes sense.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

It has always been my opinion that most who buy their first double rifle tend to buy too large caliber. My advice would tend to move more to the opinion of NE 450 No2, I think the best choice for a first double rifle would be a 450/400NE 3" , and I too would scope it in QD rings and bases. The factory ammo is available at far less cost than the 470NE, and the other two are strictly handloading affaires if a steady supply is to be on hand. The 450/400NE 3" is an excelant chambering for Cape Buffalo, and not many today shoot more than a couple of elephant in their intire lives.

If however you don't maind doing the work your self, the 450NE 3 1/4" would be a fine choice because of the componant availability because of the .458 bullet it uses, and the 450NE 3 1/4" is the cartridge that started it all! The 470NE is a fine cartridge, and is available but will rivel the morgage payment on you home in price @ $349.00 USD for a box of 20 rounds from Federal. That's $17.45 USD per trigger pull. I don't know about you but that price makes me handload for every thing I shoot, but especially my double 470NE rifle.

I'll tell you this if you buy a 450/400NE double rifle, and think it is too small, I'll certainly make you a sweet deal on a 470NE double rifle! Because the 450/400NE 3" is a far more versatile double rifle than either of the ones you are thinking about. That is unless you intend shooting a lot of elephant, and though the 450/400NE 3" will kill elephant quite handily, My choice for a dedicated ele rifle would be a 500NE double rifle, but nothing short of a 450NE 3 1/4" in a double rifle or a 458 LOTT in a bolt rifle!

I agree with the posts above BUT I would not buy any DR in any bigbore calibre if you've never shot one. It's not like your buying a 1,000-2,500 dollar bolt rifle, do it right the first time with the right DR for you. Bolts are bolts and DR's are DR's, there are alot of AR DR folk throughout the country two or three good chaps here on AR that live in the NYC area, (one being bigfivejack who will pipe in here soon), that would probably let you shoot their DR's about anytime, any place. Shoot all three DR calibers for yourself and post your personal findings on your perceived recoil, recoil is a very personal experience.

The 450 can do what the 470 does in a lighter/trimmer rifle so that would be a caliber I would look at if I were only to own one bigbore DR. If you must step up like I have, the 500 is in a class of it's own between the three calibers and recoil is more stout in the modern lighter 500's as mentioned above.

Dirk is right, try before you buy. I hear about the recoil of the .500, but to me it is not that bad at all. I am not a big guy, 5'8" and 180 pounds. I find the .500 to be very managable. On the other hand I have owned .500/416 and .470 doubles that I have found punishing. It all depends on the person, the rifle, stock design, etc.

Perceived recoil is a personal thing. My PH had "banged" the rear sight on his Krieghoff 500 NE and as I had some allen wrenches with me we sighted in his double. When we finished I took a shot of the sticks to compare it with my Identical double in 470NE. IMO, a huge step up in recoil.

Now to add confusion, I find my M70 416 Rem Mag more uncomfortable to shoot off of the bench than my 470. I perceive the 416 to be sharper than the 470, while less than the 500, still a sharper jab in the shoulder.

Here you can decide for yourself, ignoring stock dimensions, etc.

http://huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/

One of the fundamental problems with doubles is that there is too much drop in the stock and hence kicks the crap out of you. This is why a Krieghoff with a straighter stock is easier to shoot.

And most are overweight pigs, but that is another story!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

I think the best choice for a first double rifle would be a 450/400NE 3" , and I too would scope it in QD rings and bases.

!

Mac:

The only problem with this is that most 450/400s START OUT too heavy and then you compound the problem by adding a scope. First thing you know you are carrying an eleven pound gun in a caliber with fairly modest ballistics. If this is a gun for cull elephant and buffalo, don't you think he would be better off with a .450 or a .470? Of course, he could just get a .500/.416 and have the best of both worlds

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

Mac:

The only problem with this is that most 450/400s START OUT too heavy and then you compound the problem by adding a scope. First thing you know you are carrying an eleven pound gun in a caliber with fairly modest ballistics. If this is a gun for cull elephant and buffalo, don't you think he would be better off with a .450 or a .470? Of course, he could just get a .500/.416 and have the best of both worlds

Dave

Dave how many people do you know who will be CULLING elephant and Buffalo with a double rifle of any kind? That is usually restricted to game people, and the department is not going to supply double rifles for that purpose when bolt rifles are so much cheaper to buy and feed!

What you say is certainly true if you want to buy a double rifle chambered for 450/400NE 3" that is too heavy. You don't have to buy a heavy 450/400 however. The new Heym is just under 10# and I had a A&N 450/400NE 3" that was 10.2 # and I don't think the is too heavy for most double rifle chamberings over .400 cal. Hell my 140E 9.3X74R double rifle is 8.3# and my 500/450 WR is 10 lbs, my 470NE double tops out at 10.7 # I have a 22/25o varment rifle that is 9.5 lbs without the scope. and a 7mm mag Ruger No1V that weighs 8.7 lbs. So if you are used to carrying a 10 lb rifle what difference does it make what caliiber it is, as long as it is what you want to shoot?

I simply do not see the problem, if you don't like the 450/400NE 3" simply do not buy one, it's a free world, at least for now! I happen to like the cartridge, and have used it to take Buffalo with ease, and when thousands of Buffalo have been slaughtered with 375 H&H bolt rifles, and double rifles I see no draw-back to the use of a sweet cartridge like the 450/400NE 3"!

I simply will not be drawn into another pissing match with anyone over the 450/400NE 3" double rifles. Anyone who wants one will not have to settle for a 11 lb double rifle, there are many new rifles out now in normal weights, and AMMO is available today, buy it and use it or leave it and me alone! If I didn't already have a 470NE double rifle I'd buy one of the new Heym 450/400NE 3" doubles in a heartbeat! Others may do as it suits them.

...............

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Dave how many people do you know who will be CULLING elephant and Buffalo with a double rifle of any kind?

Mac, In Leopardtracks post he said he'd be using the rifle he chooses to cull ele and buff so I too would opt for the 450 or 470 to do such work over the 450/400 not that it's a bad choice either. I also don't think Dave was pissing on the 450/400 as much as addressing the heaviness of some 450/400's in comparison with 450's and 470's and basically saying he'd choose a more powerful caliber weight being equal.