Happy New Year All:

The questions are:
-How long is the stock on your rifle?
-Did you alter the factory stock to fit your
frame?
-How do you go about calculating proper stock
measurements for your person?

Now the background:

I am an average and proportional 60 year old fellow of 5' 11" and weighing about 210 pounds with average length arms.

I have a Merkel 141 with a Leupold VX-3, 1.5-5 scope mounted to the gun with quick detach Leupold rings and bases.

Living in Northern Alberta, much of the year is spent wearing a jacket. Everything from windbreakers to Arctic weather gear. Current temperature outside is -22 deg. C heading to -30.

The stock length from the front trigger to the centre of the butt pad is 14 and 3/8 inches.

With rifle mounted and looking through the scope set at 1.5 power, I have a full clear view of the reticles. With the power set at 5, looking through the scope shows a black ring taking up over half the scope. I really have to goose neck it in order to get a clear scope. Now, my nose is still far enough away from my thumb that i won't bang my nose.

Also, I cannot move the scope further back as the turret is already nearly touching the back ring.

a couple years ago, I bought a Zastava Manlicher in 6.5x55. The rifle is scoped with a Zeiss Conquest 3-9x40 with Leupold quick detach rings.

I finally took it out yesterday to start load development.

Stock length from trigger to the centre of the butt pad is 13 and 1/4 inches. No goose necking to get a full field of view at any power and, lots of room between the thumb and nose.

In the summer, I wear an insert in my shooting shirt to ad length to replicate the bulky clothing of winter.

What precipitated this little exercise in navel gazing was the purchase of a wonderful book titled "Stock Fitters Bible, Removing the Mystery", by Rollin Oswald.

In the chapter on length of pull, the author suggests that with the shotgun mounted and head upright with no stock crawl, the knuckle of the thumb should be approximately 1 to 1 and 1/2 inches from the nose.

Funny enough, one of my 12 bore over/unders has a shorter stock than all the others. This gun is deadly in the grouse woods and is my go-to gun for upland hunting.

This book has really opened my eyes and removed the mystery of proper stock fit. Length of pull is just a small part of proper stock fit but one of the easiest things to fix.

My apologies for the wordy diatribe.

I look forward to your responses on this cold, very dark night here in the woods of Northern Alberta. I think I'll pour myself a glass of scotch. Too bad I quit smoking cigars. Damn heart attack, LOL.

Kind regards,

Carpediem

considering your inclement weather, Id go with a short stock and in the summer add a slip on pad if needed or a soulder recoil pad..I prefer to measure my guns with a shirt on..then add to length when needed, it won't work the other way. As you age your LOP will get shorter and your bording on that in a few more years..The only thing you really need to know is does the gun fit you and is it comfortable to hold and shoot, and does it point to your target without strain..

Ray Atkinson:

Thanks for the response.

That was my thinking as well.

And yes, I used to be 5' 11". Now 5' 10". I think its going to get worse.

With all the experience on this site, I was hoping for a greater response.

Oh well.

Kind regards,

Carpediem

Though you may be a little taller than average, a lot of factory stocks are still sold with old-time average stocks. Shotgun stocks are usually about three-quarters of an inch longer that bolt-action rifles and, while db rifles look like shotguns, English writers have said their length of pull should be shorter. I suspect since double-rifle barrels are heavier, having the balance point closer might make them easier to raise.

So, initially, I would try to find another scope with either a longer eye relief or a tube giving more flexibility.

If that doesn't work it would not be crazy to cut half an inch off the butt, considering your build and cold-weather jackets.

Carp, does the Merkel have a recoil pad? If so, you might remove it and see if you can find a plastic or steel replacement. That would shorten the stock 1/2 or so without cutting it and lessening its value. I had a friend who had his Alaska-specific rifles stocked to a 12" LOP, knowing he'd be wearing heavy clothing. Of course, they were very hard to sell if he wanted to do so.

The old quick test is to hold the grip and rest the butt side on your forearm; the pad should touch your bicep. More or less, that still works; for most guys; some not for various reasons. Merkel tends to make long stocks, as does Chapuis. I usually make them 14-14.5 inches LOP for most guys. Factory stocks are about 13.5 or so.

Doublel rifle stocks tend to be a tad longer than bolt action stocks, a tad long helps with the absorbtion of recoil btw...Your 5-10 so I supect if your of average build, then 13-1/2 including pad would suit you, if your a stock crawler or tend to be lanky, the 13-5/8 including the pad. Just based on the average, and it would certainly be smart to try out the gun before purchase, if it feels good, points good that is the best measurement you can get..beats the tape measure or try gun..

quote:

13-5/8

are you measuring from the rear trigger?

reason-- most 5'11" guys shoot a 14.5 or 14.625 (front trigger) pretty well

Have you tried extension rings to move the scope back?

M

Most guys in the 5’ 10” range will have a length of pull of around 14 3/8”-14 5/8”. A skinnier build will be on the longer end of the scale.

The shorter LOP on most modern mass produced bolt guns is due to them being setup for shooting on the bench with the body more perpendicular.

It’s difficult on double rifles and some single shots to get the scope far enough back. This isn’t due to length of pull but rather the location of the gun at which the scope must be mounted. Offset rings to bring the scope back fix that issue.

I don’t agree with everything Oswald says.

In theory and in practice a DR is not stocked the same as the same owner's side by side shotgun. But slightly shorter in length of pull and slightly more drop.

Why? The drop effect of a stock is like the hands of a clock as Peter Powell explained to me when Powell's was still Powell's.

So if the "clock" is at five minutes to one the gun will shoot higher than if the "clock" is at ten minutes to two.

The minute hand being the barrels and the hour hand the stock. More drop the point of impact is lowered.

Drop DOWN = Shot DOWN.

So as a shotgun should be set to put 60% of the charge above the mark it'll have less drop than a DR.

As a DR is set to put the bullet directly on the mark which if it were firing a charge of shot would be 50% above the mark.

SAMBARMAN is correct about LOP.

I forget the reason for shorter length of pull but think it is to do with how much of your finger manipulates the triggers?

Thanks enfieldspares,
being an ignoramus, I should frame your last reply.

But I wonder if you could explain what you think is behind that clock stuff and how the analogy works? Is it an imaginary line made horizontally from the 11 to the 1 that would be higher than a horizontal line between 10 and 2?

Considering the way we hold guns, I would have thought a quarter-to-three might represent one with a very straight stock and twenty-to-four the low-comb job.

Remember folks, stock drop measurements are typically taken from the line of sight which differs between shotgun, iron sighted rifles, and scoped rifles. You can actually have the same drop measurements between a shotgun and double rifle, but due to the extra height of the sights a rifle will have less drop relative to the boreline.

NOW that's what I'm talkin' 'bout.

thank you folks for all the suggestions.

I think I'll start by removing the recoil pad and see if that makes a difference.

There was mention of off set rings. I have Leupold quick detach rings on the gun now. Do they make an off set ring in that configuration?

Kind regards,

Carpediem

I'm measuring to the front trigger.

The problem with these responses is one poster is talking a T-shirt and another a parka..The original poster is in Alaska! so about an inch give or take difference...thus my shorter measurement with the suggestion of adding a slip on pad in the summer..but most if not all of your "hunting" will be in the WINTER, should a trip to Africa or Aussyland be in your agenda, you could slip on a pad or make do, if your so disposed...

I can make any reasonable stock fit myself If I practice with it just a bit, same with triggers..Ive passed that on to my kids and grandkids..The human body is a miracle within itself, and if you shoot enough guns throughout the year for whatever reason, its handy to be able to make that adjustment..I always felt if I could just pick up any old gun and shoot it well it would be mighty handy in a gunfight or looking Mbogo in the eye..