Guys,

I really need your answers here please. Enter the exact weight, to the ounce,

of your UNSCOPED, UNLOADED vintage double rifle of U.K. manufacture and state

the caliber too. Additionally please indicate if it's a Birmingham B/L or

London S/L. I am especially interested in calibers 375 Flngd Mag thru 500 NE.

If you want to keep it private I am at advenjack@yahoo.com - Thank you for the

assistance!

Army & Navy(Webley) 450/400 3 1/4" 26" barrels 9lb. 8oz.

Fred

Fred,

Thanks MUCH, just what I am looking for.

Not thinking of selling are you? [by the

way PHV-1 or A&WC?]

WVFred,

Very nice package! Great photo.

JPK

They both smother me, the rifle and the buff

Jack

That Alex Henry 450/400 3 1/4" in the Julia auction was a good buy.

Did you look at it ?

Jack what is wrong with this Watson Bros.

http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx?tabid=30&mid=3...&StyleID=3&GunID=181

Sure it is 10 1/2 lbs but it's set up with claw mounts, on the type of action your looking for, and under 15K

If your going to let a 8 to 12 oz make your discision then I feel you will be looking awhile. If you want one at that perfect weight call Butch or FAMARS or Fanjoz or another and get one built to spec.

Other than that its like dating, there is no perfect person, but my wife is close. (I'm going to stop here and not get into weight

Just get one that fits!

Have fun on your quest BFJ.

505ED

More like 16 to 20 oz. 10 1/2 lbs won't kill you carrying it all day - heck thats what my rifle weighs - but might as well carry a 10 1/2lb 450 or 470.

JPK

505ED

Well said.

That Watson Bros looks fine.

Jack, I think you are being toooooo picky
without having owned / carried many rifles.

The BALANCE of the gun (DR) makes a hell of alot of difference to how the gun feels in your hand at the end of the day.

Having carried DR's and Bolt's all day in 40 deg heat, I know when I have been carrying a barrel heavy gun versus my WR 500 22" which is a perfect balance for me.

500N,

I never was close to on time for the Julia

auction. I have also not learned how to

participate yet, it's on my to do list.

505ED,

At this time I want vintage U.K. for the

investment/character/history facets. The

weight issue is just that I am seeing a wide

range in the given calibers. So at this

point my patients is not yet exhausted as

I try to find an example like WVFred has

graciously posted. IE. 375 FM @ 9 p's or

less, 450/400 @ or under 9.75 p's, 45-47 caliber

@ or under 10.75 p's, 475#2 @ or under

11 p's, 500NE @ or under 11.5 p's. Can I hold

out forever, NO. But for a bit longer...yes.

True, but a nice gun with all the features except a bit more weight. My douglass is 9.5 and is pretty brisk, but nice to carry. The 577 was 13lbs 2oz and too damn heavy to carry and pretty light to shoot. I think 10 to 10.5 is perfect in a 450/400 to a 470.

505ED

Jack

Your hopeful.

I have DR's in all of those calibres
except 475#2 and from memory you are
at the lower end or under the weights
for all of them.

I will try to dig up the weights of
them all.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
10 1/2 lbs won't kill you carrying it all day - heck thats what my rifle weighs - but might as well carry a 10 1/2lb 450 or 470.

JPK

My point exactly, if I am going to carry a certain number of pnds

& oz's I want the FP's energy/bullet weight that is worth it! There

is a 45 cal on Champlins now at 11 pnds, 5 oz's. If it was .65 - 1.25

pnds lighter IT WOULD BE MINE ALREADY!

Jack

Of those guns I own that I have weights

Rigby Sidelock 375 Fl Mag - 9.5lbs
Haven't weighed the other one
which s a Webley Long Bar Screw Grip !

Rigby 450NE - 10.5lbs +

Most of my 500NE's weight 12lbs +

My WR 500NE (22" barrels) weighs 11 lbs
but this is a later gun + short barrels
so expected.

Jack,

Its true that a well balanced rifle will feel lighter in your hands than even a lighter less well balanced rifle. But the rifle is on your shoulder the bulk of the day, in your hands for relatively brief periods. Well balanced or poorly balanced, weight is weight on your shoulder, back, legs and feet.

A pound sounds like nothing, and it is nothing by itself. But cut a pound and a bit from a rifle and you have off loaded 10% or more, and that is significant. I notice the pound difference in my DG rifles, that is sure. If you are going to hump the pound, get the benefit of the proper calibre for weight.

A 10% lighter rifle throwing a 25% lighter bullet isn't the trade off I'd make, but it is a heck of a lot better trade off then equal weight rifles to carry but choosing the 25% lighter bullet to shoot. Makes no sense.

I also think you are being too picky, but that is because I think you are trying too hard to find a screw grip and also because you are ignoring better rifles from European makers. I went for the best quality rifle I could find in my price range. It wasn't an English rifle. That is one reason I was hoping you would get a chance to see and handle my rifle at G&H.

If you are stuck on an English rifle, and in your price range, which makes finding the right rifle tough at retail prices, you might consider using an agent at some of the auctions, especially the English auctions.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
Jack

Haven't weighed the other one (375 FM)
which s a Webley Long Bar Screw Grip !

Tickle 9 p's and I'd really hope we can come to an agreement!

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:


Rigby 450NE - 10.5lbs +

Another that looks like a very attractive example!

quote:

Originally posted by 500N

My WR 500NE (22" barrels) weighs 11 lbs
but this is a later gun + short barrels
so expected.

I think this is likely over my budget but the weight seems IDEAL!

quote:

Haven't weighed the other one (375 FM)
which s a Webley Long Bar Screw Grip !

Jack

Yes, that comment was put in to get your attention !

I thought that would get a response from you
as that the was gun that fitted your initial description perfectly !

500N,

You're not "toying" with me for "sport" now, are you?

JPK has a point. When you get tired of looking at the english guns( and they are nice, some of them) look at some of the Cont. makers. I have a douglass made in Holland and finished in england. Nice gun can be found between 12K and 15K. I handled George Hoffman's Fanjoz 470 too short for me but fit and finish was very nice. Price 15K. Names like J. Just, and Thys while never cheap is alot of gun for the money and are built well.

Sorry for the ramble.

Good night

505ED

500N, You've a PM.

quote:

Originally posted by 505ED:
JPK has a point. When you get tired of looking at the english guns( and they are nice, some of them) look at some of the Cont. makers. I have a douglass made in Holland and finished in england. Nice gun can be found between 12K and 15K. I handled George Hoffman's Fanjoz 470 too short for me but fit and finish was very nice. Price 15K. Names like J. Just, and Thys while never cheap is alot of gun for the money and are built well.

Sorry for the ramble.

Good night

505ED

Thanks for ALL your input ED, you guys are all excellent company!

1:30 AM East Coast time USA,

signing off here, G'nite...

Gentlemen,
Thank you for the kind words.It is a PHV-1 ejector and shoots even better than it looks so I guess I better hold on to it.

Fred

WVFred

Got exactly the same gun - they are very nice.

You obviously enjoy yours as I do mine.
Yet to take mine hunting but I will do
sometime.

Jack:

Michael Merker just put a Boswell 450/400 on Guns America for $12K. It weighs 10.75 pounds, however.

Lou

Thank you LJS, I will look at it.

So 500N, you too have a 9.5 pnd 450/400 -

I am NOT crazy after all! Another of your

vault that I'd welcome as my 1st DR.

I am asking really nicely men, please

chip in here with your rifles spec's.

Jack,
Here is fellow AR member Tom Kessels 470ne William Evans 26"barrels screw grip action.It tips the scales at 10lb 12oz.

I am familiar with Tom's William Evans .470 - it's a REAL jewel ..... about 95% condition, and all original finish.

A HA!!! WVFred has posted his own rifle and the rifle of an acquaintance

with weights that fall within the guidlines I have decided to "shoot" for.

Further evidence that I seek something worth seeking IMO. Now is this 470

available for me to buy Fred? [though I am not confident that I will hear YES

I must ask, one never knows...]

[Very nice Photo I might add, VERY NICE!]

Jack,
Sorry it's not for sale either.You are doing the right thing by waiting to find what you really want.It sounds as if you know what you want and will not be happy to settle for anything less....keep looking it will happen.
Fred

But I bet even if that gun was for sale it would'nt be in the "teens".

Ed