Many people only think of a double rifle for Dangerous game up close.

In the process of using my big bore doubles, a 450/400 3 1/4" and my 450 No2 on the deer lease as much a possible to get hunting experience with them before Africa I "discovered" just how good a general purpose hunting rifle they are.

As a result, I bought a 9,3x74R Chapuis, scoped it, and through the years, realized it is the best hunting rifle on the Planet between a 300 Mag [for long range stuff] and a 40 cal double, which covers a LOT of area.

In fact, I am of the opinion that a double rifle is the BEST type of rifle for the hunting of ALL game, usually hunted and shot under @250 yards. I have streatched my 9,3 to 300 yards on 2 occasions.

So, what other double rifle calibres are aviaible for hunting "normal" game.

First of all if you are buying a vintage double then your calibre will be chosen for you.

Any of the British calibres from 7mm to 9,3 will be good hunting guns. I have several friends with 400/360 doubles.
It was a fairly popular bore. 400 Nitro is deadly on pigs with his.
The 375 Flanged [2 3/4"] is a good choice as well.

However, in a new made double, the choices will most likely be the 7x57R, the 7x65R, 8x57R, 30-06, and the 9,3x74R.

ANY of them will be great hunting rifles for most North American game.

My favorite is the 9,3x74R.

I have found it not too much for animals like bobcat, turkey, and coyote, perfect for deer, pigs, black bear, all African plains game, and adequate [excellent actually] for giraffe cape buff and elephant.

It truely is one of the best hunting calibres on the Planet.

However if you do not plan on using it on one of the big African animals, one of the 7mm to 8mm calibres would be an EXCELLENT hunting rifle.

If you use one for a year or two for your "normal" hunting, I think you will find, as I have "discovered" that the double rifle is THE BEST hunting rifle on the planet for all but maybe long range hunting.

Remember, I never set out to "prove" this, I "discovered" it.

If double rifles were not so expensive everybody would have a "few".

quote:

If double rifles were not so expensive everybody would have a "few".

Truly spoken, Tony.

My dream list:

22 Hornet
30-40 Krag
9.3x74R or 375 Flanged Mag.
450 NE #2
577 NE

Reality, hope to get a 9.3x74R Chapius "soon".

Hog Killer

Hog killer
I can only say, the 9,3 Chapuis, scoped, is worth every penny.
It truely is one of the best hunting rifles on the Planet.

I know little to nothing about them but...
22hornet
7x57r
8x75rs
.500/.416
maybe a couple of shotguns also
12ga 30in.: what I learned to shoot at doves with.

450 No2,
AS you know I currently own a Merkel 8x57IRS and have owned several Valmets and a Chapuis in 9.3x74 but one of my favorites was an Otto Geyger in 8x60RS. A little problem to load for as I never had any factory brass but RCBS made form and trim dies for using 9.3x74R cases and I didn't have much problem. It was a fine shooting rifle and shot 1 1/2" groups with no problem. It was on a small Greener action with side safety and all. Super nicely built. Kinda miss it but then I miss most of the guns I've gotten rid of over the years. 8x60RS is an overlooked caliber as far as I'm concerned. It's right up there with a 300H&H. Maybe more useful than the 9.3 if you have a larger double. Always wanted to take it to Africa but never did.

450 No2
Once I hunted a double in the bush it's quite hard for me to pick up any of my bolt rifles. I have to agree the 9.3x74 is hard to beat for an all purpose caliber. So to cover the spectrum of caliber and game I have a Merkel in 30-06, have a Chapuis 9.3 on the way, and I have a Searcy in 470. I am a happy camper, anxious for my next African trip in 2008 where I will be carrying a 32 inch compact aluminum gun case with the scoped 9.3 and the 470.

dirk
You have it "sorted out" for sure.

Zim
Nothing wrong with an 8x57 or an 8x60.

The first double rifle I ever owned was a S/S double sidelock cased double rifle with all the tools, and a spare set of lock springs, and fireing pins. The rifle was a mint condition, H&H best grade made in 1920 for a client in Germany. Believe it or not I bought that rifle for a lordly sum of $900 us, and had to borrow the money to do that, at the age of 21 yrs old! I bought that rifle in El Paso, Texas, in 1958, had it four years and never fired it! In 1958-1962, 9.3X74R componants were about as scarce as hen's teeth. I traded it for something I could shoot, but wish I had that rifle today, because it would be worth considerably more than $900 US for sure. That 9.3X74R double was just the first, of several I've owned since, and currently own two doubles so chambered.

It was about 10 yrs before I had a 9.3X74R double rifle that I could shoot, and it was no H&H best grade, for sure, but a great hunting rifle! It was a Model 410 Huskavarna box lock, and as plain as a H&R single barrel shotgun, but it would place four shots under a playing card at 100 yds, and accounted for several deer!

I agree with Tony, the only cartridge that would be better for a light double than the 9.3X74R would be a 375 H&H flanged, if only componants were easily available. Unfortunetly they are not, and that makes the 9.3X74R the best under .400 caliber, to pair with a larger double rifle, for a two rifle safari! My own Pair is today a pair of Merkels, a 140.2 Safari, 470NE double, and a 140E 9.3X74R double. However, I find I use the 9.3 double far more than any other double I own, and I own five double rifles, and two cape guns, in calibers from 8mm to .585.

The little S/S double barreled 9.3X74R is tops for general hunting, and can take on some very impressive animals with great success!

$900 in 1958 dollars wasn't chicken feed. but side-lock H&H, wow!

I have a 9,3x74R double and love it!
Have to have one - this is my second DB and my primary hunting tool.

But in Europe the 30R Blaser is getting over it in sales more and more - and I must admit - with good reason...

The 30R Blaser is right in the middle between the 30/06 and 300 WMag - enough for all non-DGR hunting with good trajectory and reduced recoil compared to the 9,3.

Bullet selection is another advantage here in the .30s.

It will gain market in the US too - but will take some time because of the limited market with break-open guns.

If you are in the market for a "smaller" caliber double or single-shot or a shot/rifle combo - have a close look on the 30R Blaser - you won't regret.

BTW the 30R is based on the 9,3x74R case!

Cheers, Franz

quote:

Originally posted by Daydreamer:
I have a 9,3x74R double and love it!
Have to have one - this is my second DB and my primary hunting tool.

But in Europe the 30R Blaser is getting over it in sales more and more - and I must admit - with good reason...

The 30R Blaser is right in the middle between the 30/06 and 300 WMag - enough for all non-DGR hunting with good trajectory and reduced recoil compared to the 9,3.

Bullet selection is another advantage here in the .30s.

It will gain market in the US too - but will take some time because of the limited market with break-open guns.

If you are in the market for a "smaller" caliber double or single-shot or a shot/rifle combo - have a close look on the 30R Blaser - you won't regret.

BTW the 30R is based on the 9,3x74R case!

Cheers, Franz

The 30 Balzer is a perfect chambering for the double rifle man who want's to hunt at home in Europe, or North America, because it is legal to hunt about anything. However, if one is to use the rifle in Africa, then the 9.3 has the advantage of legality for dangerous game in many countries, and the 30 cal, in none. Someone did a wildcat a few years ago on the 9.3X74R case, I think it was Keith,or Ackley that consisted of opening the case mouth to .375, and blowing out the case straight, with a sharp sholder. This would be legal in all countries for the big five, and still be made in a very light rifle, that would be a good plains game cartridge, and a back-up for your larger rifle, as well! .375 bullets are almost as easy to find as 30 cal, and illiminate the legal problem that accompanies the .30 cal rifle!

If I'm not mistaken, the cartridge I was refering to was called the .375X74R, Kieth, or AI. I have an old Pedersoli double rifle, that I may re-barrel, by sleeving, to this chambering, just for kicks!

I have had great luck with the 9.3x74R in my double both here and in Africa. Love the cartridge.

I've been toying with smaller calibers in a double, and even owned one in .30-06 which also shot extremely well and was used successfully on several animals here and in Africa. I sold it with regrets to this day. (Never would have sold it if it had been a 30R Blaser!)

I've decided to compliment my DR (9.3x74R & 500/416) with a single shot in 6.5x57R, .30-06 (the caliber it came in initially) and 9.3x74R.

The combo of my DR and single shot should cover this lefty for any hunting I'll ever do here and abroad.

Good luck.

Do not forget the .22 Hornet!



Perfect for duikers and such.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Do not forget the .22 Hornet!



Perfect for duikers and such.

Dan, not being able to see the top of the rifle, what is that little item directly in front of the trigger guard?

I believe it to be the underlever. That is one way to keep the weight down to 2.2 pounds.

The medium double rifle caliber that always intrigued me is the 360 No2 Nitro express. It used a .366 diameter bullet (same as the 9.3s)that weighed 320 grains and gave 2,200 fps. It used the 450 nitro case base and was very well thought of in the old days. In a modern gun you could probably increase that velocity some safely and the 286 grain bullet could be upped substantaly from the 9.3X74. Maybe Butch needs to look into this one.
465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
The medium double rifle caliber that always intrigued me is the 360 No2 Nitro express. It used a .366 diameter bullet (same as the 9.3s)that weighed 320 grains and gave 2,200 fps. It used the 450 nitro case base and was very well thought of in the old days. In a modern gun you could probably increase that velocity some safely and the 286 grain bullet could be upped substantaly from the 9.3X74. Maybe Butch needs to look into this one.
465H&H

...and the brass can be a nightmare. Base diameter is roughly .005+" smaller than .450 Basic. For guns with generous chambers, necked down .450/.400 3" will sometimes work, but....
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

In th edark ages before Bell brass was available we commonly formed 470 and 500/465 brass from 500 Nitro brass. 500 Nitro has a base diameter of .580 and 470 is 572 while 465 is 573. That meant a reduction of .008 and .007. That wasn't a problem for us so I suspect a reduction of .005 waouldn't be either although I haven't done it myself.

465H&H

Back in the Dark Ages of doublguns, in 1984 I took delivery of a Gibbs-made .350 Rigby No. 2 ex-India and scoped it with a Leupold 4x compact and warne rings butted up against the backsight. Form dies arrived with it and I was soon making 9.3x74R brass into .350 Rigby No. 2 brass, loading .358 heads made up in 225 grains by a forgettable company in Texas until I convinced Lee from Swift to start producing 225 grain A-frames when we met at SCI in 1987.

Now, headstamped brass is readily available, admittedly 400/350 from the parent round, but I still use the Swift A-frame, the most accurate head. I've had to have the rifle put back on the face, resulting in a three-inch composite group at 100 yards with iron sights. In August it took a nyala at 25 yards and a wildebeeste at just on 200 yards wearing the scope. It took two gemsbok at between 40 and 60 yards with iron sights to end the month-long hunt.

Couldn't agree more about hunting with medium bore doubles. Very fast handling and accurate as you want them.

Best in the New Year, Tim

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
In th edark ages before Bell brass was available we commonly formed 470 and 500/465 brass from 500 Nitro brass. 500 Nitro has a base diameter of .580 and 470 is 572 while 465 is 573. That meant a reduction of .008 and .007. That wasn't a problem for us so I suspect a reduction of .005 waouldn't be either although I haven't done it myself.

465H&H

.500/.450, .500/.465, .470, .476 WR, and .500 are ALL formed at the factory from .500 basic. They're simply necked from the basic case. Base diameter specs for all of these cartridges are exactly the same. That is not the case for the .360 No. 2 vs .450 basic, and this is more often a problem than not. The .360 No. 2 is notorious for this.
------------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

400!

Exactly what is the problem?

465H&H

I have a .22 Hornet which I built about 5 years ago. I am in the finishing stages of a .450 #2 with a second set of 12 bore barrels. My next one, which I've already finished the barrels for, is a .303 British. With those 3 doubles, I figure that I can go around the world!

I used my .375 2 1/2" NE this year for deer in West Virginia. It was loads of fun.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:
Do not forget the .22 Hornet!



Perfect for duikers and such.

IIRC that rifle was a 17 HRM. and I think it cost 110,000 euros or thereabouts.

I've always thought I would like to have a nice light english double in .303

Fred

The gun to which Mr. Beller refers used to be mine. My loads sent a 270 grain .375 bullet right at 2000 fps. I took it on Safari a few years ago and killed zebra, impala, hartebeest and about five other animals with it, all with one shot kills.

It will shoot just as accurately as you can. I never shot better than 2" for four shots at 100 yards, but I belive that Fred as bested that?

Want to sell it back?

Let me add another voice for the .350 No. 2, had a Rigby Best sidelock ejector, 8 3/4 lbs, 26" barrels, for 35 years. 225 grains at 2650 FS. Wrote it up in Double Gun Journal a few years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
The medium double rifle caliber that always intrigued me is the 360 No2 Nitro express. It used a .366 diameter bullet (same as the 9.3s)that weighed 320 grains and gave 2,200 fps. It used the 450 nitro case base and was very well thought of in the old days. In a modern gun you could probably increase that velocity some safely and the 286 grain bullet could be upped substantaly from the 9.3X74. Maybe Butch needs to look into this one.
465H&H

I completely agree on the 360#2. I shot one for three years and let some fool( ) talk me out of it. This was well before I had much big bore loading experience. I sold it because I could not find components to load it with. In the early 80's there were never a lot of components available and factory stuff was very scarce. My loss. I still have the Clayton Nelson 375 & 416 so it wasn't a total loss.

lb404!

Did you reload for your 360 No2 and if so what cases did you use. Did you have any unusual problems loading for it?

465H&H