The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Speed of an Extractor Rifle Video ClipGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Speed of an Extractor Rifle Video Clip | Login/Join |
One of Us |
Here is a small video clip I shot this afternoon at my range showing 4 shots from a 500NE with Extractors. Enjoy. http://s1093.photobucket.com/a...dProject1AppleTV.mp4 | ||
|
One of Us |
I would agree that the difference in reloading speed for a double with extractors and/or ejectors would be very little as generally even with ejectors you do tilt the gun sideways to clear the cases from the body, similar to what you are doing in your video with extractors only. As to the question of the speed of reloading a double or a bolt gun I personally think this is much more clear cut especially when not being done under controlled conditions such as your video. Try reloading a double after two shots when being charged by an animal or having to quickly shift position to get in another shot at the same animal or another animal. Under the same scenario the bolt gun will have at least two or more shots very quickly at hand after firing off two rounds and if it is a CRF action another round can be chambered perfectly safely while on the move even with the rifle held at any angle to clear brush or scrub. Try that with a double or in some cases even a push feed. From observing videos of very experienced hunters (not PH's) using doubles, once they empty their double very few seem to get quickly reloaded again when on the move changing position etc. It is usually the PH with a bolt gun and multiple rounds left in his mag that provides the backup or insurance shot. I'm a lefty and envy right handers who can quickly operate their bolt guns, although I'm not too slow on the left operation, but I would certainly not handicap myself further with a double. Even on non-dangerous game there are many instances I can recall in my hunting life where the bolt gun and its magazine full and ability to be operated quickly when on the move is something that a double could never emulate. | |||
|
| One of Us |
As per my comments in the video, today's little movie isn't going to put the century old argument to rest!  | |||
|
| One of Us |
The key on any of the above is practice until the rifle is an extension of your body that doesn't require thinking about it to make the action happen. It is important if you are looking at something with big teeth or big feet but it is also important if the deer or hog is on his way to the next county and you need that quick second or third shot. Many a bolt gun has been short stroked under stress. NRA Endowment Member DRSS | |||
|
one of us |
Hollywood requires how many takes? I think it is 60 Minutes on TV that tries to convince that the impossible is true!! ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
|
One of Us |
Excellent video Todd. Your earlier description of how it is done was spot-on, but nothing like seeing it in action to solidify the concept. Thanks for the education and video  NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thanks Doc, Someone mentioned making a demonstration video on the previous discussion and since I got a new camera for Christmas it seemed like a good topic to play with. Not sure why the video quality was so poor as this is a production quality camera. Probably had some setting out of whack!! Still learning. Could have been that I was using a SD tape in a HD camera!  The main focus was to show the technique of dumping the brass. I think for many who may be considering a double rifle for the first time, there is a misunderstanding of how extractors work. From my conversations with guys who haven't operated an extractor gun, most seem to think the brass has to be pulled out similar to the way it is done on a double shotgun with extractors. I remember the first time I saw it, it was an "Oh, Yeah" moment in how simple it is. Obviously, a single barrel reload will need to be pulled but reloading under those conditions is seldom time critical. If time critical, it's probably best to shoot the other barrel!! Conversely, with extractors, it can be done in total silence. For me, I prefer extractors. | |||
|
| one of us |
Todd, looks good to me. Speed might be improved by use of a wrist band setup ( for say 4 rounds) worn on the right wrist. Saves fumbling on the left side of the belt. Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
|
| One of Us |
Peter, I agree. I normally put 2 rounds in the open part of the back of my fingerless gloves. I left them at home this day so just reloaded from the belt. I would like to do another of these with a friend of mine who just received his custom 416 Rigby bolt action. Maybe a side by side contest, bolt trash against double!! He actually showed up just as I finished this video but those were my last 4 rounds. I burned the other 16 shooting for regulation with the new CEB bullets. The old shoulder was getting a bit sore at this point! Hopefully we can pull that off in the near future. Cheers. | |||
|
one of us |
Todd: That was a nicely crafted little clip -- clean, good camera placement, good sound. I'd love to see you shooting your Merkel against your friends .416 bolt gun. Thanks for taking the time and trouble. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
|
| One of Us |
Todd, Great video and also great hunting album. I would find it much harder to pull off the second two shots after they were reloaded with that 500NE! Great shooting! Life Is For Service DRSS | |||
|
| One of Us |
That's the way I reload my Blaser .470 but it looks like I have to get used to ejectors now. The Searcy that I bought came with ejectors and they work pretty well. Good video Todd. and good shooting | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thanks for the comments guys. I'm glad you enjoyed it. Todd | |||
|
| One of Us |
Todd, I enjoyed the clip very much. That is the exercise I planned to do this winter with my Merkel 470 extractor gun. I also planned to do similar with my Searcy which has ejectors. | |||
|
one of us |
There is no doubt that ejectors on a double rifle are slightly faster with a shooter that is equally proficient with both types! However the tipping of the ejector rifle to the side has only to do with the person who chooses to do it that way, because it is not necessary to do that. In my case (I’m right handed) when I break the rifle I keep my eyes on the target and if I want to save my brass I break the ejector rifle so the brass hits me in my cheat, and drops at my feet. If I don’t particularly want to save the brass the natural position of the rifle throws the brass over my right shoulder, and it does the same for the lefty over his left shoulder, so the eyes stay on the target. When using my extractor double rifles I dump the cases just like Todd, but I cut the re-load time in half with either ejector or extractor, by carrying my next two rounds in a holder on the back of my trigger hand instead of on a belt or with a rifle butt stock carrier. This is a big mistake most make with fast re-load with a double rifle.
I agree that there is a difference when confronted with an animal that is not put down with the first two shot, regardless of if it is a double or bolt. Many minds get scrambled in that scenario, and some folks have 15 fingers on each hand. Make no mistake, however, for people who are equally proficient with an ejector double is at no disadvantage to the guy with a bolt rifle for four shots. The double rifle guy will way ahead of the bolt rifle for the first two, and about equal with the bolt guy on shot three, and ahead again on shot four. This is not a pipe dream it has been done, in fact I have personally done it. What it takes is practice, and some thought of logistics in equipment, nothing more! I do agree 100 % with you on the value of the CRF action in the bolt rifle! IOM, no bolt rifle that is to be used on dangerous game should ever be a PUSH FEED, but the CRF doesn’t make the bolt faster for four shots than an ejector double and only about equal with a good man with an extractor double!
I believe what you are seeing is very experienced client hunter s at hunting, but not necessarily experienced with double rifles, having only switched to double rifle only recently. The admireing the shot instead of getting off as many follow-up shots till the animal is down or out of sight, is certainly not restricted to double rifle shooters. I’ve seen any number of well known bolt shooters run after buffalo, till they stop and look back and have to chamber another round before they can shoot. As I said before the biggest mistake double rifle shooters make is loading the shots three and four from a belt, or butt stock carrier, stead of from the back of the trigger hand, or trigger hand wrist carrier.
Being a lefty is far more of a draw-back if shooting a right handed bolt rifle than he would be if using a double rifle! As far as reloading a double on the move it is not hard to do after TWO SHOTS than it is with a bolt rifle after every shot requiring five hand motions each time after every shot, in fact it’s easier than reloading a bolt rifle when it runs dry, with most rifles larger that 375H&H being one in the chamber and three down. One reload for the double for the four shots, and three reloads after the first shot with a bolt. If more than four shots are needed the man with the double will have to shoot the buffalo off the bolt man wile he reloads that magazine! I reload a double on the move all the time with no problem at all. The fact is whether you are using a bolt or double if you do not become proficient with your firearm, and the rest of your equipment , you need to stay away from dangerous game, or book with the “LET THE BUFFALO DECIDE HOW HE WANTS TO DIE” guy, and you wont even have to bring a rifle along! He’ll do all the shooting for you! …………………………………………………………  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Mac, Likewise, I don't find reloading a double on the move to be difficult at all. It all just boils down to practice. Dropping two rounds into the chambers takes less effort than reloading the magazine 1 round at a time and then closing the bolt. In addition, most bolt guys will single load once the magazine is emptied which makes it even slower. Most of this is academic at any rate. There are situations where time exists for more than 2 shots which will favor the bolt gun and there are situations where 2 quick shots are only possible with a double. The hunter never knows which situation he will be presented with should things go "pear shaped". Begno's hunt report with the buff getting to him and his PH is a good example of needing and being able to deploy more than 2 shots. Buzz's new Elephant DVD has a segment where he and JB are hunting Ele Cows when the cow charged, Buzz hit her low, then stepped aside as she blew through the group of hunters. As he points out, had he been using a double, he could have brained her as she passed but didn't have enough time to cycle the bolt until she passed him. So again, the argument continues! The real purpose of this video clip was to demonstrate the extractor technique to those unfamiliar with it. I could have cut the time a bit by putting 2 cartridges in the back of my gloves but as mentioned, I left them at home this day. I didn't find that out until already at the range.But there really was another reason I chose to reload from the belt. I wanted to do the demo the way I really hunt. When actually engaged in stalking an animal with my double, I've never employed the little tricks of holding 2 rounds between the fingers or even placing the 2 rounds in the gloves. I've just not found it necessary in the field so wanted to keep it as realistic as possible. However, if I can work it out with by buddy and his 416, you can bet I'll employ the old fighter pilot's creed of "If you're not cheating, you're not trying"!! When we shoot for bragging rights, I'll use every trick available to represent us DR shooters!  | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Speed of an Extractor Rifle Video Clip
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia