Did you expect Sabatti double rifles at their price point...

to be properly regulated. As in the barrels to be soldered and shot, heated and the wedge moved and then re-soldered, shot and then heated and the wedge moved then re-soldered and shot and re-soldered and so on and so forth until done up right? Or is grinding the crowns acceptable?

to have the barrels be properly blacked?

to have wood be done in a traditional oil finish?

to have engraving be done by hand rather than by machine?

I can't speak for everyone but to me,

I expect the rifle to shoot, reliably, close to the factory target. In any and all conditions I can reasonably ask of the rifle.

If by grinding the crowns, they could get acceptable accuracy in realistic weather conditions, I'd be fine with it. I would prefer it be done via the traditional method, but I understand why my gun was half the price of the competitions.

As for the barrels, finish, and engraving. You get what you pay for. I didn't expect a H%H quality gun, for Sabatti's price. I expected a field and hunting quality gun, for 5K.


I won't know till I return home from this deployment, but if mine won't shoot, I will be talking with Cabelas to fix my issue. Be it with a new Sabatti, or a refund/credit towards another maker.


I will also add that my regulation target, was part of the reason I purchased the gun I did, as I expected I was getting a gun capable of shooting good groups. 4-6 inches or more is unacceptable

quote:

Originally posted by AK_Stick:
I can't speak for everyone but to me,

I expect the rifle to shoot, reliably, close to the factory target. In any and all conditions I can reasonably ask of the rifle.

If by grinding the crowns, they could get acceptable accuracy in realistic weather conditions, I'd be fine with it. I would prefer it be done via the traditional method, but I understand why my gun was half the price of the competitions.

As for the barrels, finish, and engraving. You get what you pay for. I didn't expect a H%H quality gun, for Sabatti's price. I expected a field and hunting quality gun, for 5K.


I won't know till I return home from this deployment, but if mine won't shoot, I will be talking with Cabelas to fix my issue. Be it with a new Sabatti, or a refund/credit towards another maker.


I will also add that my regulation target, was part of the reason I purchased the gun I did, as I expected I was getting a gun capable of shooting good groups. 4-6 inches or more is unacceptable

Well said.

Yes, well said. If it shoots the rest means little. Don't pay 5 g's for a double and then whine because it's not a H&H!

As I've said in my posts in other threads on the subject, I'm of the same perspective as AK-Stick.

I'm having issues with my Sabatti shooting as well as the target but posted on another thread that when my dad shot the gun he got a group that was close to the regulation target.

I've regulated a 470 with Hornady DGS bullets and had no problem getting the task accomplished. That being said, I think the problem with my Sabatti is probably a combination of the hard trigger pull and me. I talked to gunsmith in Idaho who told me that on heavy trigger pulls to squeeze your whole hand and not just the trigger finger. I'll give that a try next time out.

I'm gonna load some plinking rounds for the rifle and practice, practice, practice on not pulling the muzzles up but squeeze of the shots.

quote:

Originally posted by touchdown88:
I talked to gunsmith in Idaho who told me that on heavy trigger pulls to squeeze your whole hand and not just the trigger finger.

One of the most experienced Double Rifle guys that posts here who regularly competes successfully in DR competitions shared that a tight grip on the stock and forend are key to accuracy and consistency with DRs. He regularly uses those hand-grip strengtheners because he feels it is that important and I have taken his advice and started the same. Seems your gunsmith was on the same page.

quote:

Originally posted by CCMDoc:
As I've said in my posts in other threads on the subject, I'm of the same perspective as AK-Stick.

I agree with you guys for the most part. Part of my reason for asking the question is this...for what my VC cost I could buy three Sabattis. To be honest, hunting with or giving my VC any hard use makes me very nervous. I like the idea of a $5k double that one can hunt with and use hard without worrying about the odd ding or scratch from use and the lack of some of the features I mentioned in my original post are what gets it to $5K. As long as it is accurate and dependable some of the bells and whistles aren't really critical and I guess I wouldn't really worry too much about the shortcuts that were taken to get to that price point but the method of regulation, grinding the crowns in a sloppy fashion, if, indeed that is what they are doing, would be a concern to me.

quote:

I agree with you guys. Part of my reason for asking the question is this...for what my VC cost I could buy three Sabattis. To be honest, hunting with or giving my VC any hard use makes me very nervous. I like the idea of a $5k double that one can hunt with and use hard without worrying about the odd ding or scratch from use and the lack of some of the features I mentioned in my original post are what gets it to $5K. As long as it is accurate and dependable some of the bells and whistles aren't really critical and I guess I wouldn't really worry too much about the shortcuts that were taken to get to that price point.

I am glad to see the reasoning behind your question. I have seen some very snobbish responses to the whole Sabbatti "thing".

Frankly, I have not seen the double rifle yet that I couldn't afford to write a check for. That is not intended as a brag, by any means, I just wanted something that functions well, is reliable and that I wouldn't feel like an ass if scratched, dinged or gouged.

I drive a Chevrolet, not a Porsche because I want something that functions, not a status symbol. If my Chev gets a door ding or some South Texas "pin striping" it ain't the end of the world.

I want to hunt with the damn thing. If I wanted an investment there are better ways to go, no doubt.

But I sure don't fault folks that want more, it just ain't the way I operate.

I worry for a livin', I don't wanna worry ( as much ) during recreation.


Thanks for your honesty, you always seem to be honest.

.

Guys I just got back from the range and one thing I've noticed (and it could be the chrony) is every once in a while I get a huge (80-100 fps) deviation with Hornady factory ammo and it does affect group size. Also, I'm almost convinced these rifles like to shoot a little "dirty" as well. I'll know for sure here this next time I go and shoot, but it seems if I clean down to bare metal using Wipeout, it takes about four rounds (two per side) for the rifle to settle down again.

One more issue with mine is the forend is very stiff to disassemble. Any of you guys experience that?

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:
To be honest, hunting with or giving my VC any hard use makes me very nervous.

I used to feel the same way about the "good" stuff (not only guns but most things in my life) and had "back-ups" (when I could afford them) that would serve as "beat-ups".

While I am very careful and do my best to keep the things I have as pristine as possible,
as I've gotten older, I look at the scars that my "things" get as reminders of the adventures that made them.

I'd hate to take my elephant with a stainless synthetic bolt gun instead of the purpose-built, beautiful V-C double I will soon have because I was worried about a ding or scratch while facing down Jumbo. But, as I've said, my attitude now is different than years ago and in my past I'd probably have done and thought as you do.

BTW, I am happy with my Sabattis and would buy more despite the hoopla as long as they were accurate and consistent and I would use them every year in the rain and snow of the North East in my pursuit of whitetail deer, boars and anything else I have the opportunity to hunt.

Ya know, as I think about it now, maybe I'm not too different from you after all - I probably would not take the V-C double into that weather.

Just the 1st point. Above all else, the regulation process must be done right or else you might as well not have a double.

Cane Rat,

I did expect the Sabattis to be regulated by traditional methods, only because I didn't know there was any other way. However, considering there comparative affordability, if it helps to keep costs down and IF THE RIFLE SHOOTS STRAIGHT, it wouldn't bother me too much.

I did expect the bbls to be well sruck-up, and well blacked.

I could tell from the photos that the stock finish was CHEAP at best, but it does serve its purpose.

I didn't expect hand engraving. First, because of the pics from Cabelas. Second, because of the price.

------------------------------------------------

Jorge,

Both the Sabattis that I returned had the same problem with the fore-arm release.

Thanks, Nemo.

quote:

One more issue with mine is the forend is very stiff to disassemble. Any of you guys experience that?

Very much so on my 450/400. Also, it is stiff to break open and close. I've been told that both will become smoother and easier with use.

All the Sabattis I've handled are stiff, both the forend and the hinge. Better tight than loose.

Expectations must be based upon knowledge. I didn't know there was another way to regulate a DR, but as long as it works I'm OK with it. I did know the engraving was machined, but I find it well done and attractive - even more so than some more expensive DRs with engraving that looks like it was done by a five year old. The wood finish looks OK to me, but as I've said before, it could use some more oil.

Guns to me are tools, not investments nor status symbols. So if they work - all the time - and shoot well, I'm satisfied. I cannot think of a single DG rifle I've ever bought that didn't need some adjustments to meet my standards and the count is now 7.

quote:

Originally posted by Cane Rat:
Did you expect Sabatti double rifles at their price point...

to be properly regulated. As in the barrels to be soldered and shot, heated and the wedge moved and then re-soldered, shot and then heated and the wedge moved then re-soldered and shot and re-soldered and so on and so forth until done up right? Or is grinding the crowns acceptable?

to have the barrels be properly blacked?

to have wood be done in a traditional oil finish?

to have engraving be done by hand rather than by machine?

I would rather pay more and get a DR regulated in the traditional way... I mean, these guns are half of the next step up, and JJ can reguluate it for $700.00? To me that means for less that $700 more, the FACTORY could have regulated them properly in the first place, AND they would still be a good deal.

The rest i could live with, as least i can live with it at the price point they are...

DM

quote:

for what my VC cost I could buy three Sabattis. To be honest, hunting with or giving my VC any hard use makes me very nervous. I like the idea of a $5k double that one can hunt with and use hard without worrying about the odd ding or scratch from use

The very reason I bought a good solid Merkel .500 NE.

A good solid "using gun" that is tried and true. And at the price I bought it for...I won't be afraid to crawl through that tough Jess in the Sapi with it. Cause...I bought it to carry.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

for what my VC cost I could buy three Sabattis. To be honest, hunting with or giving my VC any hard use makes me very nervous. I like the idea of a $5k double that one can hunt with and use hard without worrying about the odd ding or scratch from use

The very reason I bought a good solid Merkel .500 NE.

A good solid "using gun" that is tried and true. And at the price I bought it for...I won't be afraid to crawl through that tough Jess in the Sapi with it. Cause...I bought it to carry.

Merkels are great rifles!

The only double that I miss from time to time is my first.....a Merkel 470. That gun, after a sight rework from JJ was a shootin' machine...and took my first buff!

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
DSC

I have handled several different rifles at Cabela's. They are trying to sell the illusion of a working double , too much spent on makeing it pretty and not enough on makeing it sound.

I would prefer bead blasting and hard chrome to a blue job, (blueing requires skill and man hours to polish, any body can bead blast with little or no training). Wood finish is not that important as long as it is a sound finish (Spray on poly).

Less money spent, better working gun produced ( like the Ruger Alaskin),it does't have to be glossy to sell.
It just has to be accurate and reliable. Why not build it with a adjustable regulation like the Tika or Merkel. Less skill required to build it, laser set up at the factory with fine tuneing on the range by new owner useing ammo of their choice.


I would love such a double
JD

Well I love mine because it got me into "the game" at a price I could afford with a level of fit/finish and accuracy that is quite pleasing. I bought it to use as a tool and while 5K is a lot of money I take this rifle out daily on my walks and have hammered about 20 squirrels in practise for the "big game"!

The thought of doing that with a 15K+ gun is just to much for me.

Well said JCS, covers it exactly. fit, finish and accuracy are on a par with rifles costing much more and it got us into the double business. jorge

I'm with JCS and jorge. Sure the 2 I got had inexcusable problems, but after firing them in the meantime, I realised I was hooked on double rifles.

Before that, I had only held a few (Merkel, Kreighoff, Blaser, some shotgun-conversions, and Sabatti) at the NRA show, and a couple of Heyms besides, but I never fired one.

So, having fired the Sabattis, I knew for sure that I really wanted a double rifle.


For all their other problems, I have to say the the barrels were well struck-up, and well blacked.

I'm in Reno and met today with a Cabela's Gun Library Manager. I discussed the current regulation and the god/bad shooting issues. He assured me that Cabela's is now aware of the issues and will stand behind what they sell. Replacement rifle or refund were specifically mentioned.

For myself, the issues have never changed. If they shoot well they are keepers and if not, return them for exchange or refund. Cabela's stated they agree with that position.

I know what J.J. Perodeau told me after he examined my Sabatti and nothing has changed. Nobody is being forced to buy a Sabatti, so for the critics, get over yourselves.

Mike: that mirrors exactly what he told me, in fact he gave it to me in writing that if anything EVER goes wrong with my Sabbati he'll replace it or give me a full refund. And I'm still shooting 1" groups jorge

Hi every body:
JCS271 wrote

"Well I love mine because it got me into "the game" at a price I could afford with a level of fit/finish and accuracy that is quite pleasing. I bought it to use as a tool and while 5K is a lot of money I take this rifle out daily on my walks and have hammered about 20 squirrels in practise for the "big game"!

The thought of doing that with a 15K+ gun is just to much for me"


Read my mind.

Shooting squirrels is a lot fun especially with a double.
Good shooting/hunting And God's best'
Malek

I like to think that if a tool / gun does the job you bought it for, then everything is good.
If it cost less than other brands it is even better.
We drive in different cars, dont we. Some cars with this, and some cars with that.
What do we do when a new brand of car enters the market. We are SKEPTIK. When they have been on the market for some years, and performed well, everything is ok and life goes on.
I was serios looking at Sabatti for a while myself. I first saw them at Cabelas website and at that price I was very tempted for an exstra DR. Like, I think Mike said once, this is a decease. It turned out that a Sabatti 470NE would cost me about 7100USD, here in the land of taxes. Almost the same as a used, well kept Merkel or Krieghoff.

A friend and I was in a heavy duck shooting once. Windy, with ducks all over the sky. We missed a lot, and my friend called: We are not here for the kill. We are here for the bangs.
I like when it bangs, and as long as it dont bite back, killing is secondary.

quote:

Originally posted by malek:

The thought of doing that with a 15K+ gun is just to much for me"


Read my mind.

Shooting squirrels is a lot fun especially with a double.
Good shooting/hunting And God's best'
Malek

Try doing it with a $50,000 and it starts raining !

As much as we like to baby our guns, they are still tools
and there to be used. Well, that is my view.

.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by malek:

The thought of doing that with a 15K+ gun is just to much for me"


Read my mind.

Shooting squirrels is a lot fun especially with a double.
Good shooting/hunting And God's best'
Malek

Try doing it with a $50,000 and it starts raining !

As much as we like to baby our guns, they are still tools
and there to be used. Well, that is my view.

.

500N

I am with you 100%.

Once while at Watkins Glen a couple of guys were incredulous that "someone would put that kind of car on the track. What if he breaks something or crashes it? What an idiot!"

From behind them I responded "Why would I have that car if not to race it? Would be a shame to never see what it can really do in a place where the limits can be tested. It's made to have fun, not just look like it's fun."

Zipped up my suit, grabbed my helmet, put on my HANS and offered a ride. The one who took me up on the offer never again wondered why I put that car on the track and convinced his pal the same. I bet the same can be said of hunting with those beauties.

There is much to be said of using high-end tools in the manner they were intended. That doesnt mean they should be abused but the sh-t-eating grin on the face of one who enjoys such opportunities, even if only once, says volumes of the experience and answers the question of "why" forevermore. At least for me.

CCM

Well, I've dropped my WR 500 Nitro White Hunter, been pissed on when hunting with my Original 505 Gibbs, waded through a stinky muddy swamp and belly crawled with my other 500 Nitro up to a Buffalo and yes, it got some mud on it.

Yep, my DR's have had their fair share of crap thrown at them but they all survived, still look good, still work

Apart form my absolute collector pieces, they all go hunting.

.