I've been lurking around here for a while, noticing the wealth of knowledge that seems to be gathered on this board. The problem with all these posts and pretty pictures is they have caused an itch that I need to scratch with a new gun.

My question is a simple one, If you had $10-15k to spend on a double, any double new or old,capable of DG what would you pick and why?
Caliber? Manufacturer? Model?
I lean towards double triggers and ejectors other than that I need guidance.
thanks
Notlim

If I were limited to 10K, it would be a Merkel .470.

I would buy a UGEX Chapuis in 9,3x74R during the "group buys" (prices around $4,200) and shoot it for a year or so to find out where you want to go to from there.
Good luck

Notlim, one of the things you should realise is that DG guns are heavy and have a lot of recoil. If you want a gun that is just plain fun to shoot and is DG capable, although not perhaps one's first choice as a "stopper", then the 9,3x74R, as recommended above, is an excellent choice. Although anathma to some on this board, I have a Tikka (Valmet) O/U in 9.3x74R and I love it! I also have a couple of other S/S doubles, but the 9.3 goes to the range more often. Now, when I go to Africa, it might be a different story, but I would suggest that you get a gun you will use and enjoy rather than just keep in the safe.
Oh! BTW, they are a lot less than $10K!
Peter.

There is a ZOLI O/U 9.3x74R NOW in eGun for 1150 Euro.

O/U is definately out for me, I just don't like the look of them. I currently have a .375 h&h bolt gun so I figured I would carry it anyplace that a 9,3x74 would be appropriate.
I am really thinking about a 450-400 or a 470 as the appropriate new addition. Buff and an ele of some sort will be the intended recipient of its anger.

500 grains are you thinking about the 140 or the 160 merkel?

I'm one of those who believe the first double rifle for a man should, not only, be a new one, but a smaller chambering as well. This belief is, as others have said here, because the smaller rifle will be used, and used a lot! In a chambering like the 9.3X74R the rifle is big enough to hunt anything on the North American continent, and is legal in may countries in Africa as well. The cost to buy it is lower, as well as the cost of shooting the rifle.

This gains experience with the Idiosyncrasies of double rifles, and tells the owner, if he is truly a double rifle man, or not! He will find quickly if he is willing to learn the care and feeding of a double rifle to get the best from it! If he decides he is not a double rifle man, the 9.3 is an easy one to sell, so he can reclaim his money, for something better suited to his likeing!

I have two 9.3X74R double rifles, a S/S, and an O/U, and the S/S has become the go-to rifle a full 90% of the time, and is great when paired with a 470NE S/S of the same make. Like most folks, I simply don't shoot the 470NE as much as I do the 9.3, but both are exactly the same rifle, except for the recoil, and weight on the 470NE rifle. So shooting one, teaches the other!

The 470NE double I have now was bought from a fellow AR member, who bought it, shot two elephant, and three buffalo with it, and simply decided he was really a bolt rifle man. Now he didn't loose the money he spent on the double he bought, but it took him a while to sell the big bore. If it had been a 9.3, it would have sold in a week!

got a 375H&H boltgun and want a double? 470 or 500 Nitro Express by Butch Searcy... My Krieghoff 500NE 3" was pleasant to shoot, but don't know current pricing or availability.

Rich
DRSS

I would buy an NIB Seracy 450/400 3 inch custom fitted to you or wait for the Heym 450/400 3 inch later this year or early next year. Both well made rifle with proper 26 inch barrels, cambered in a round that you will shoot more and hunt more with. Just my opine!

A MERKEL 470NE.

quote:

Originally posted by notlim:


500 grains are you thinking about the 140 or the 160 merkel?

I don't actually know the difference.

quote:

Originally posted by 500grains:

quote:

Originally posted by notlim:


500 grains are you thinking about the 140 or the 160 merkel?

I don't actually know the difference.

I'm sure you won't get a 160 Merkel for $10K, or even the $15K, so I'd be thinking that he was refering to the 140-2 470NE Safari, which retails for $11K, but can be had for as little as $9500-$11K from Cabela's!
I have one and it shoots fine!

You should buy MY Merkel .470 (with dies, brass, etc.) and have some change left over.

Chapuis PH 1 in .470 Nitro Express would be my choice. Very good build quality, well executed and attractive engraving, ejectors, good balance (although not up there with the Brits of course) and a good Pachmayr recoil pad out of the box.

They can be found within your quoted price range, but act now - the dollar ain't getting any stronger!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
I'm one of those who believe the first double rifle for a man should, not only, be a new one, but a smaller chambering as well. This belief is, as others have said here, because the smaller rifle will be used, and used a lot! In a chambering like the 9.3X74R the rifle is big enough to hunt anything on the North American continent, and is legal in may countries in Africa as well. The cost to buy it is lower, as well as the cost of shooting the rifle.

This gains experience with the Idiosyncrasies of double rifles, and tells the owner, if he is truly a double rifle man, or not! He will find quickly if he is willing to learn the care and feeding of a double rifle to get the best from it! If he decides he is not a double rifle man, the 9.3 is an easy one to sell, so he can reclaim his money, for something better suited to his likeing!

I have two 9.3X74R double rifles, a S/S, and an O/U, and the S/S has become the go-to rifle a full 90% of the time, and is great when paired with a 470NE S/S of the same make. Like most folks, I simply don't shoot the 470NE as much as I do the 9.3, but both are exactly the same rifle, except for the recoil, and weight on the 470NE rifle. So shooting one, teaches the other!

The 470NE double I have now was bought from a fellow AR member, who bought it, shot two elephant, and three buffalo with it, and simply decided he was really a bolt rifle man. Now he didn't loose the money he spent on the double he bought, but it took him a while to sell the big bore. If it had been a 9.3, it would have sold in a week!

I think Mac brings up a great point. My first and only double is a Chapuis 9.3. I had no idea if I would even like a double rifle and without living with, shooting, carrying and playing with it I would never know. So I bought it new, had it built to my specs and I love it. I like it so much I have been thinking about others but I keep coming to the question, why? I will probably never hunt elephant and even if I did I could use my 9.3 or 375 H&H bolt. Someday I will hunt buffalo and my 9.3, while not ideal, packs a lot of punch and I feel very comfortable with it.

I can take my 9.3 to hunt almost anything in the world and being able to break it down into a small case that doesn't scream "rifle" while flying.

It boils down to why on earth would I need a hunting rifle I will probably never use.

Someday I might get a bigger bore but the cost to use ratio is ridiculously high and it will have nothing to do with need. I have actually thinking about a smaller bore double more then a larger one lately.

notlim

I have 3 double rifles, and I have hunted them quite a bit in North America and in Zimbabwe.

I have used all 3 from game like deer and pigs to cape buff and elephant.

Calibres are a Chapuis 9,3x74R, a British 450/400 3 1/4" and a British 450 No2.

The advice about the Chapuis 9,3x74R is VERY good.
It is a double that you will use a lot, should be scoped, and if well handled is effective on buff and elephant.
The ONLY buff I killed with one shot I killed with my 9,3 Chapuis. Likewise I killed an elephant with it at 5 yards with one shot.

Many people feel it is marginal for such game, but well handled it leaves nothing to be desired.

It is not a stopper, but it is a killer, many people say. However if ANY animal charges you, only a brain shot will save you, and the 9,3 will "brain" any animal.

Unless you will be shooting a bunch of buff and/or elephant on a single Safari the 9,3 is a good choice IMHO.

However, if you must have a big bore, for 10 to 15K I would handle the Chapuis, Merkel, Krieghoff, Heym, and the Searcy.

There is nothing wrong with the 470 Nitro Express, if you can handle the recoil. Shoot one before you buy.

However....
I think the best big bore calibre in a double rifle for the sport hunter that needs/wants a "big" bore is the 450/400.

With Hornady ammo comming on line it will be a great choice.

On all 3 of my Zimbabwe Safaris I have taken my Chapuis 9,3x74R scoped, and my 450No2.

On my last Safari my wife "took" the 450/400 and I used it on warthog, baboon, zebra, bull elephant, and lion.

The 450/400 is a Great choice if you must have/want a big bore.

If your Safari will only include one buff and maybe a cow elephant, the 9,3x74R is a HARD choice to beat.

I would look around and buy a good used double. You can find a pretty good English double for $10,000 if you don't get in a hurry and shop around until you find one..

You could also find a nice used Searcy for around $10,000 or less, and that would be my first choice for a hunting rifle.

buy a Merkel, I had one and it shot wonderful, a lot better then most more expensive guns. You will not regret a Merkel, accurate tough gun, well worth the money you spend on it.

Welcome to the forum. Now that you have come out of the closet and aren’t lurking please post your location so we can see it.
I think you would have a great chance to see and handle and even possibly shoot a great number of doubles if you came to one of the DRSS hunts.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by notlim:
My question is a simple one, If you had $10-15k to spend on a double, any double new or old,capable of DG what would you pick and why?
Caliber? Manufacturer? Model?
I lean towards double triggers and ejectors other than that I need guidance.

That probably isn't quite as simple as you thought it was.

New or used, the cheapest worth having will be the Merkel. You said .450/.400 or .470 - you're stuck with .470 in the Merkel. It's a fair trade for the price. They usually shoot well. Automatic case losers will mean a new gun as Merkel has only just started offering them on the larger bores.

The Chapuis is a good rifle and I like it in the medium and small bores (actually, the suggestion above about trying out a 9.3 Chapuis for a while is a good idea), but feel that they really lost the proportions in scaling up to the larger bores. It's available in .470. Again, they're normally good shooters.

The Krieghoff is available in .450/.400, .500/.416, and .470. They're normally very accurate. To me though, handling isn't very good and the safety system is one that you either love or loathe. No ejectors. Since Krieghoff builds all calibers on the same frame, a second set of barrels can be retrofitted much more reasonaby than is possible with the other guns. If you decide you like it, a used gun in good condition makes sense here. On the resale market, the pool of potential buyers is much smaller due to the safety design.

Even though you said $10K to $15K, the Heym should be considered, if you can stretch your budget just a little or can find a nice used one, as its the best quality in a new DR under $20,000. The PH model is available for around $16K in .450/.400 and .470, and can be ordered to fit. They've also built .500/.416 and .450 in the past, and will likely still do so on order.

With care, a good quality used British gun in decent condition can be done in your budget, but it would be a bit of a trick, as that's definitely the lower end of their price range these days. They're far and away my preference, but your budget and caliber preference won't make it easy.

I don't recommend the Searcy.

It's best to take your time and handle and shoot as many makes as you can before you bite.
---------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by 400 Nitro Express: I don't recommend the Searcy.

Mark has been steady on this point as long as I can remember. Many feel

he's the most informed person on the board regarding double rifles, especially

those from the U.K. At the same time many men have bought SEARCY rifles and have

heralded them, and remain completely happy. We've seen a couple of stories about

them that really surprised me, and after that I decided to take them off my list.

I do think I am finally onto my rifle. Within a few weeks I hope it's all over and

I can officially call myself a D/R owner. Caliber you ask, 450/400 I respond. New

or used, modern or vintage, from whose shores...? To be announced...

you cannot go wrong, nor would you ever regret buying a merkel 470

and if you were lucky enough to get an ejector rifle but didn't want it to eject you simply remove the springs from the forend.

I repeat:

quote:

Posted Aug 25, 10:07 AM Hide Post
You should buy MY Merkel .470 (with dies, brass, etc.) and have some change left over.

______________________

Bill:
I'm located in Ontario, Canada.
It's quite a hike for me to get to texas, but I'm going to do it someday.
What kind of a difference in perceived recoil is there between the 450/400 and a 470?
It looks like the merkel is very well thought of here.Handling lots of doubles is a problem here in the great white north, and the only way I will get to play with more than one will be at the sci convention.

a bit high, but 465H&H, respected member here and a man who has gone on multi elephant hunts in Africa has a gorgeous Searcy in 470 IIRC for sale in the classifieds.

Rich
DRSS

Not having shot them in the same rifle handicaps my opinion, but I think the recoil difference between the 450/400 and the 470 is substantial but not drastic. The 400 is noticable but not tiring, the 470 is on the upper end of "comfortable". The 500 NE begins the "gotta focus" group for me.

quote:

Originally posted by notlim:
Bill:
I'm located in Ontario, Canada.
It's quite a hike for me to get to texas, but I'm going to do it someday.
What kind of a difference in perceived recoil is there between the 450/400 and a 470?
It looks like the merkel is very well thought of here.Handling lots of doubles is a problem here in the great white north, and the only way I will get to play with more than one will be at the sci convention.

Notlim
Thank you for posting your location. I think Tiggertate’s anser is verey good in assigning the recoil factor. This is assuming they are all at the appropriate weight for caliber.
The SCI convention is a good place to see many doubles There are a couple of other places that have a good selection of doubles. The Tulsa OK. Show You have to see this one to believe it.
http://www.tulsaarmsshow.com/frames.html
I think there is still a good one in Vagus to besides the SCI show. I think it is called The International arms show and has booths by most of the manufactures. You could hold out and get someone to get you into the SHOT Show where all the manufactures have displays.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by notlim:
Bill:
I'm located in Ontario, Canada.
It's quite a hike for me to get to texas, but I'm going to do it someday.
What kind of a difference in perceived recoil is there between the 450/400 and a 470?
It looks like the merkel is very well thought of here.Handling lots of doubles is a problem here in the great white north, and the only way I will get to play with more than one will be at the sci convention.

Skip that Zoli and all O/U's for sure. I wouldn't buy an old English gun, Searcy or Krieghoff. I wouldn't buy a large bore either. The 9.3x74R is an outfuckingstanding cartridge and you cannot go wrong. In 9.3, the Chapuis is a good gun, the Merkel even better. I had a Chapuis and recently handled a Merkel 140(?) boxlock in 9.3 and it was head and shoulders above the Chapuis IMO. Costs more tho but worth it. Big bores at first kick like a mule for the average guy and don't let anyone tell you otherwise, but you quickly get used to it. Hell, the 9.3 in a light rifle is a randy little cuss! All this said you can't go wrong with the 450/400 either. What a wonderful round. You may get tempted to buy a Merkel 500 but I'd steer clear.