I'd appreciate your thoughts on the best double for client use given the parameters listed below. Thanks, jorge

Question:
Folks, if one were in the market for a double to hunt the Big Six, is the 450/400 the best choice given power, penetration, etc as a client?

Choices:
450/400
470 NE
450 3 1/4"
450 #2

 

Jorge, my choice would be the 450/400NE 3"but that is because first and formost it is my favorite cartridge for a double rifle for all around use world wide. Ammo is now redily available, and and rifle being made that are properly weighted, and ballanced. With a QD scope set-up it is a very nice rifle for anyone!

Now if the 450NE 3 1/4" was as available, it might be my favorite, but I doubt it. Anything larger than the .400 class you are getting into specialized rifle class, and for that I pass all the chamberings above the 450 NE 3 1/4" and go straight up to the 500NE. I have a couple of .450 class rifles, and a 470NE, and My choice would be a 9.3X74R, and 450/400NE 3", and a 500NE double if I were allowed only three double rifles for all the world's animals. If only one it would be a 450/400NE 3"!

Hold your fire till I get dug in!

............... ........

MacD37 presenting the 450NE 3 1/4"

Thanks Mac. What's the difference between the 3" & 3 1/4". I can look it up I guess, but I want you to tell me jorge

quote:

Originally posted by jorge:
Thanks Mac. What's the difference between the 3" & 3 1/4". I can look it up I guess, but I want you to tell me jorge

1/4" case length!

Actually, there is quite a difference between the two! The 450/400 3 1/4" has a much longer neck, and the shoulder is set back quite far. Most of the 3 1/4" rifles were bored .408 as well, while the 3" versions are most times .411. The 3 1/4" was origenally a black powder cartridge, then a BPE, then finally a NE cartridge. One must be careful not ot get hold of a black powder, or BPE rifle, or one of those that has been re-proofed to NE light loads.

The 450/400NE 3" was never offered in a black powder, or BPE version, so all rifles chambered for the 450/400NE 3" is automaticlly a Nitro proofed rifle. The 450/400NE 3" was introduced in 1902 by Jeffery,because of extraction problems caused by the thin brass, and long straight neck tending to stick in the chambers, and ripping the thin rim off. The 3" case will not chamber in the 3 1/4" rifle, nor can the 3 1/4" rifle be re-chambered to take the 3" nitro version. All the new rifles in this chambering are for the 3" NE version, and are weighted more properly for the cartridge. Many of the older 450/400NE rifles were built on actions that were too large for the round, hence many are in the 11 to 12 pound range, with new ones being in the 10 pound area. The ones being made today sport a .411 bore, and all I'm aware of are regulated with the new Hornady ammo, with is .410 so that it will shoot in the .408, or .411 bore rifles equally well.

If you want a new rifle it will be a 3" version, and if you want to go old Britt, look for one in the 3" version, that is lighter than most, but if you go 3 1/4" make sure what you are buying before you lay money down. My sugestion would be to go NEW!

The answer to the question is best based on the number of elephants the hunter anticipates killing.

If elephants are a primary interest, then the 450NE becomes the favored choice, imo. Should be built to 9.5-10lbs and no more, with 26" barrels.

What is a crime is carrying a similarly weighted 450/400 and shooting 80grs, 20% less, bullet 100fps slower.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
The answer to the question is best based on the number of elephants the hunter anticipates killing.

If elephants are a primary interest, then the 450NE becomes the favored choice, imo. Should be built to 9.5-10lbs and no more, with 26" barrels.

What is a crime is carrying a similarly weighted 450/400 and shooting 80grs, 20% less, bullet 100fps slower.

JPK

+1
JPK how did you know what I was thinking?

With all due respect, you can have two shares, your share and mine of a 9 1/2# .450 nitro. Just my opinion.

Thanks Mac, I knew you'd give me a good write up jorge

quote:

Originally posted by Donald Soter:
With all due respect, you can have two shares, your share and mine of a 9 1/2# .450 nitro. Just my opinion.

I can't escape the following two observations made by others long ago:

Recoil is a mere momment, gravity is forever.

Carried a lot, shot a little.

Or my own experience carrying and shooting the double rifle I use for elephants, which weighs 10.5lbs, is in 458wm and shoots 500grs at 2145fps. I have never wished it weighed even an once more, but after a long day on tracks I have often wished it weighed less.

I see you are from Delaplane, we are not too far apart. Some other members live in the DC area or in Va your way as well. One of these days we ought to all get together for a fun shoot.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by dirklawyer:

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
The answer to the question is best based on the number of elephants the hunter anticipates killing.

If elephants are a primary interest, then the 450NE becomes the favored choice, imo. Should be built to 9.5-10lbs and no more, with 26" barrels.

What is a crime is carrying a similarly weighted 450/400 and shooting 80grs, 20% less, bullet 100fps slower.

JPK

+1
JPK how did you know what I was thinking?

We seem to be in sinc this evening!

I would agree that the number of elephants you plan to hunt should be the deciding factor.

I like the .458 bore better than a 470.

I have shot most of my elephants and cae buff with a 450 No2. My rifle is an old British double and is heavier and has 28" bbls. If fits me better than any rifle I have ever shot, and I have taken a fair amount of plaing game, as well as deer and pigs.

I have also taken elephant, cape buff, lion, some plains game, deer, pigs, black bear and caribou with my 450/400.

It is a little lighter than my 450 and kicks less.

I have also taken elehant, cae buff and a whole bunch of other stuff with a 9,3x74R.

It has killed them as good as anything else.

But I do consider the 9,3 a little light for the job, but well handled it has worked perfect for me.

Best advise would be to shoot a rifle in the 450/470 class and then shoot a 450/400.

450/400 Heym is a good one IMO

Seloushunter