Hi Guys,

My double is printing a 1/2 to 1 inch group, but it's shooting 6 inches high. Is this because my rounds are too slow?

Need your input!

Thanks.

It is more likely that the you are not getting the front sight down to the bottom of the rear sight notch or the the rifle sights need to be adjusted. It could also be that you are resting the fore arm on something hard.

465H&H

That's a great group...leave the load alone, and adjust the sights to hit that point.

Mr. Hansen,

Thanks for the guidance!!

I'm holding on shooting sticks, but not a real hard hold. I'm shooting with my front sight deep in the rear sight.

I'm WAS holding it right on target, but when it started printing high, I changed to more of 6 o'clock hold.

It shoots high with just about everything. The regulation load shoots about 4 inches high so I must be holding it wrong or something.

Do you have any more guidance for me?

Thanks for your help!!

Be sure to have your hand between the shooting sticks and the rifle. If you rest the forend directly on the sticks it may cause the high shots.

465H&H

Well,

I suppose that could have something to do with it.

Thanks!!

Oops!

My bad!

Yes Sir! It's a 45-70. It was originally regulated with Hornady Leverevolution 325 gummies. Those shoot great, but they are still 4 or 5 inches high if I aim straight at the center or the target with the sights.

It's a custom job that I had built on a Simson shotgun action. The gun is not a REAL double rifle, but it will have to do for me since I don't have the money to shell out for a REAL double.

I'm shooting at 50 yards distance. And I'm sitting and shooting off of crossed sticks. I hold the gun myself and rest my left hand in the sticks.

Like I said, it's a sweet piece. I really love it and thought I would try to replicate a load that would regulate.

I've been loading 300 grain Remington hollow points. I started real slow at first. The first one's shot almost nine inches high. The faster the load the lower the group is.

I tried shooting Winchester 300 grain (silver box) factory loads in it and those shot 6 inches high as well.

Regardless of what I shoot, it prints 1 to 2 inches apart, but shoots high.

So, what are your thoughts?

And again, I truly do appreciate all the help with this!

If you like how the load shoots and don't want to attack the rear sight with a file ( I wouldnt) just swap out the front bead for a higher one.

Where are you sitting the front bead when you aim (as in where in the V of the rear ?)

At the top of the V or at the bottom ?


I'd look at changing the front sight. As a start, trying blacking a couple of match sticks and sticking them on the top of the existing bead (with the top of the 2 NOT blacked) and use that as an aim point. (It's a cheap and easy way to raise the front sight to get a guesstimate, that's all).

It will at least give you some idea if it will fix the problem and by how much.

.

4570NUT, if the gun is printing 6" high at 50 yards with your sight picture and assuming the distance between your sights is 17.5" for example.

50 yards=1800"

(6"/1800") x 17.5" = .003333 x 17.5 = .0583"

Thus you need to lower(file) the rear sight .0583" or raise the front sight .0583"

Don, advanced calculus....is there no end to your many talents ?????

Nope. Just always keep notes on those things which I'll need in the future.

Hey Thanks Guys!!

You're right. There is a wealth of knowledge on here. I've been reading on here for a couple of years now. However, I didn't even think of trying to do a search for this topic. I'm glad you reminded me of that.

As for pics, well, I'll have to post some on here. I'll break out the gun in the next day or so and take some pics of it and then when I get back out to shooting again, which will probably be this coming weekend, I'll post pics of the targets.

And I'm really glad this is not a serious problem that costs lots of money to fix.

And yes, I do like the sound of the words "double rifle". It has quite a bit of a nostalgic spin to it. Sort of makes you want to put on a safari vest and a pith helmet and go walking through the woods in search of big hairy woolly mammoths of something.....

But thanks again for all your help and guidance. I knew I would get a great response from you guys.

Well, back to work. I'll post some pics soon.

Meanwhile, everyone keep your powder dry!

Hey Guys,

I forgot to respond to 500N's questions. I'm holding the front bead at the bottom of the V in the rear sight just enough to be able to see the whole sight.

With that said, I guess I do need a taller front sight.

I was wondering if I continued to reload and slowly continued to increase the powder load that I would eventually bring that group down a little, but either way I'm still shooting high and the best bet would be to raise that front sight.

Thanks again!

Take Care!

No, if you increase the powder it will, in theory, only make the barrels cross. I'm assuming the gun is a side by side.

Yes sir,

it's a side by side. I'll post some pics of it on here tomorrow.

Thanks.

Mr. Hansen,

Now that you mention it. I don't wear glasses while shooting. I wear them just for reading.

But, I do shoot a Shiloh Sharps 45-70 with both barrel sights and a rear tang sight....and I can really shoot it accurately. I've taken a buffalo and an elk with it. Another one of those "take it to the grave" rifles.

But I had no idea you could put an adjustable peep on a double!!!

That sounds very interesting!!

IS that something I should consider?

Every double I've ever seen had barrel sights on it.

I once owned a Kreighoff 9.3x74R for a short while, but money problems caused me to sell it. Eventually, I saved up some money and had this gun made for me. I wanted a 45-70 anyway. So, I have some knowledge of doubles, but not near as much as you guys obviously have.

Again, thanks for all the feedback and input.

Take Care!

If it was me, before I made any modifications to the rifle I would have someone else shoot it and see if it does the same.

465h&H

Yes Sir!

That's another good idea and one I'll do before I make any changes.

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
If it was me, before I made any modifications to the rifle I would have someone else shoot it and see if it does the same.

465h&H

Good point.

I've shot a few DR's where the owners have said they don't shoot, only to prove with a mate that they do.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
If it was me, before I made any modifications to the rifle I would have someone else shoot it and see if it does the same.

465h&H

Good point.

I've shot a few DR's where the owners have said they don't shoot, only to prove with a mate that they do.

With all do respect Sirs, who cares where the point of impact is for "others"???

DD

Because the gun could be shooting fine but it's him that is the problem
and it's a bit late once you have played with metal.

Also, it takes out one of the variables and as you know, once you can take out
a variable, you keep going until you fine the only one left that affects it.

Sorry, I agree, get someone else to shoot it but make sure they use the same sight picture.
- it at least will add to the knowledge base on the gun.

.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
DD

Because the gun could be shooting fine but it's him that is the problem
and it's a bit late once you have played with metal.

Also, it takes out one of the variables and as you know, once you can take out
a variable, you keep going until you fine the only one left that affects it.

Sorry, I agree, get someone else to shoot it but make sure they use the same sight picture.
- it at least will add to the knowledge base on the gun.

.

Ah, but the D.R. world is a love/hate relationship.

Point is my friend, for example, I bird dogged a very nice fully left hand .450-.400 V-C for a friend a couple weeks ago. He has a disability which no longer permits him to shoot right handed. Upon receipt of the gun he came up to my place. He was shooting about 7" to the right and about 4" high (with very consistant groups!). When I shot the gun it was about dead nuts on. I told my him that it didn't make a fat rat's ass where it shot for me. When the buff has lowered his head, he needs not have to think about where "his" gun shoots for "others". I want the gun to shoot to "his" point of hold, not mine. I drifted the rear sight to the left until it was perfect. I then suggested he send the gun to JJ with all the history for the final tune.

You just contradicted yourself.

By YOU shooting the gun, you then knew it was him and not the gun. Otherwise he might have thought the gun didn't shoot when in fact their was nothing wrong with the gun.

The guy who owns this gun doesn't know that - it could be the gun and not him.

Or something else like bullet seating depth or whatever.


.

Mr. Hansen,

That is a great set up for a ghost ring sight. I wonder where I could find something like that for mine. It would be great since I'm so used to shooting with peep sights already.

I have a couple of real good gunsmiths here in the area that could tackle a job like that..i think. If not, I could probably find one on this board that could do it.

If I could get or have an adjustable sight like that I could shoot almost any load in the gun couldn't I?

If they are all printing close together and just are high, having an adjustable rear sight that could be raised or lowered would be ideal wouldn't it?

Thanks for pointing that out. Now I have a whole new outlook and a whole new mission to work on....getting a rear ghost ring sight!!!

Thanks!!!

How about something like this ?

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx...GRS__RECEIVER_SIGHTS

Or maybe .. ?

http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/

Talley Peep
http://www.talleymanufacturing...ts&category_recnum=4


PAPI

Those are great ideas. Thanks.

I also found another one that might work as well.

http://www.skinnersights.com/lo-pro_sight_7.html

Check this one out.

Thanks.

Ok Mr. Hansen,

I'm now attempting to upload some photos of my double as you requested. I hope I do this right.....

Here goes:





















































So, what do you think?

Do you know who made this conversion? Was it made in Wisc. by chance?

Yes Sir!

Small world!
I have a 450NE that he built. That guy regulates the rifles very well.

Yes Sir!!

He sure does!!

Mine shoots great. I love it.

He does great work on the gun also. It's nice and tight, and looks very classic. I don't think I could have spent my money wiser.

Of course, if I had lots of money, i could have bought a Kreighoff or a Merkel, but the money simply is not available.

Yep, it's a keeper.

Hey Guys,

Me Again....

Look closely at the front sight on my double. You'll see it has an express style insert for the bead sight.

My question is where can I buy one that's a little taler.

I'm still working on this problem and will add photos of my targets as soon as I can.

Thanks for all your help!!

I think Recnagel make them. One German company certainly does.

Also here in the US
www.newenglandcustomgun.com

.

I was having the same exact problem with a 450bpe.... Great groups, but 8" high. I taped a length of finish nail over the front blade and shot several groups. Then did some math with the difference in the frond blade height and the corrosponding groups. I had JJ make a new front blade at the needed height, and I am dead on now.
ND

http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/


Don't ask me how I know..

quote:

Originally posted by 4570NUT:
It's a custom job that I had built on a Simson shotgun action. The gun is not a REAL double rifle, but it will have to do for me since I don't have the money to shell out for a REAL double.

It looks like a "real double rifle" to me. A 1/2" to 1" group in 45/70 means it shoots like a double rifle, or actually shoots better than most double rifles. Be proud and happy with what you have.