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Double Shoots High!!!.....questoins?
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Hi Guys,

My double is printing a 1/2 to 1 inch group, but it's shooting 6 inches high. Is this because my rounds are too slow?

Need your input!

Thanks.
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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It is more likely that the you are not getting the front sight down to the bottom of the rear sight notch or the the rifle sights need to be adjusted. It could also be that you are resting the fore arm on something hard.

465H&H
 
Posts: 5686 | Location: Nampa, Idaho | Registered: 10 February 2005Reply With Quote
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That's a great group...leave the load alone, and adjust the sights to hit that point.
 
Posts: 20177 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Mr. Hansen,

Thanks for the guidance!!

I'm holding on shooting sticks, but not a real hard hold. I'm shooting with my front sight deep in the rear sight.

I'm WAS holding it right on target, but when it started printing high, I changed to more of 6 o'clock hold.

It shoots high with just about everything. The regulation load shoots about 4 inches high so I must be holding it wrong or something.

Do you have any more guidance for me?

Thanks for your help!!
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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Be sure to have your hand between the shooting sticks and the rifle. If you rest the forend directly on the sticks it may cause the high shots.

465H&H
 
Posts: 5686 | Location: Nampa, Idaho | Registered: 10 February 2005Reply With Quote
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Well,

I suppose that could have something to do with it.

Thanks!!
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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Oops!

My bad!

Yes Sir! It's a 45-70. It was originally regulated with Hornady Leverevolution 325 gummies. Those shoot great, but they are still 4 or 5 inches high if I aim straight at the center or the target with the sights.

It's a custom job that I had built on a Simson shotgun action. The gun is not a REAL double rifle, but it will have to do for me since I don't have the money to shell out for a REAL double.

I'm shooting at 50 yards distance. And I'm sitting and shooting off of crossed sticks. I hold the gun myself and rest my left hand in the sticks.

Like I said, it's a sweet piece. I really love it and thought I would try to replicate a load that would regulate.

I've been loading 300 grain Remington hollow points. I started real slow at first. The first one's shot almost nine inches high. The faster the load the lower the group is.

I tried shooting Winchester 300 grain (silver box) factory loads in it and those shot 6 inches high as well.

Regardless of what I shoot, it prints 1 to 2 inches apart, but shoots high.

So, what are your thoughts?

And again, I truly do appreciate all the help with this!
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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If you like how the load shoots and don't want to attack the rear sight with a file ( I wouldnt) just swap out the front bead for a higher one.


My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
 
Posts: 6660 | Location: Wasilla, Alaska | Registered: 22 February 2005Reply With Quote
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Where are you sitting the front bead when you aim (as in where in the V of the rear ?)

At the top of the V or at the bottom ?


I'd look at changing the front sight. As a start, trying blacking a couple of match sticks and sticking them on the top of the existing bead (with the top of the 2 NOT blacked) and use that as an aim point. (It's a cheap and easy way to raise the front sight to get a guesstimate, that's all).

It will at least give you some idea if it will fix the problem and by how much.

.
 
Posts: 3191 | Location: Victoria, Australia | Registered: 01 March 2007Reply With Quote
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4570NUT, if the gun is printing 6" high at 50 yards with your sight picture and assuming the distance between your sights is 17.5" for example.

50 yards=1800"

(6"/1800") x 17.5" = .003333 x 17.5 = .0583"

Thus you need to lower(file) the rear sight .0583" or raise the front sight .0583"


Deo Vindice,

Don

Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780
 
Posts: 1710 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 01 February 2009Reply With Quote
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Don, advanced calculus....is there no end to your many talents ?????
 
Posts: 20177 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Nope. Just always keep notes on those things which I'll need in the future. Wink


Deo Vindice,

Don

Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780
 
Posts: 1710 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 01 February 2009Reply With Quote
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Hey Thanks Guys!!

You're right. There is a wealth of knowledge on here. I've been reading on here for a couple of years now. However, I didn't even think of trying to do a search for this topic. I'm glad you reminded me of that.

As for pics, well, I'll have to post some on here. I'll break out the gun in the next day or so and take some pics of it and then when I get back out to shooting again, which will probably be this coming weekend, I'll post pics of the targets.

And I'm really glad this is not a serious problem that costs lots of money to fix.

And yes, I do like the sound of the words "double rifle". It has quite a bit of a nostalgic spin to it. Sort of makes you want to put on a safari vest and a pith helmet and go walking through the woods in search of big hairy woolly mammoths of something.....

But thanks again for all your help and guidance. I knew I would get a great response from you guys.

Well, back to work. I'll post some pics soon.

Meanwhile, everyone keep your powder dry!
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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Hey Guys,

I forgot to respond to 500N's questions. I'm holding the front bead at the bottom of the V in the rear sight just enough to be able to see the whole sight.

With that said, I guess I do need a taller front sight.

I was wondering if I continued to reload and slowly continued to increase the powder load that I would eventually bring that group down a little, but either way I'm still shooting high and the best bet would be to raise that front sight.

Thanks again!

Take Care!
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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No, if you increase the powder it will, in theory, only make the barrels cross. I'm assuming the gun is a side by side.


Deo Vindice,

Don

Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780
 
Posts: 1710 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 01 February 2009Reply With Quote
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Yes sir,

it's a side by side. I'll post some pics of it on here tomorrow.

Thanks.
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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Mr. Hansen,

Now that you mention it. I don't wear glasses while shooting. I wear them just for reading.

But, I do shoot a Shiloh Sharps 45-70 with both barrel sights and a rear tang sight....and I can really shoot it accurately. I've taken a buffalo and an elk with it. Another one of those "take it to the grave" rifles.

But I had no idea you could put an adjustable peep on a double!!!

That sounds very interesting!!

IS that something I should consider?

Every double I've ever seen had barrel sights on it.

I once owned a Kreighoff 9.3x74R for a short while, but money problems caused me to sell it. Eventually, I saved up some money and had this gun made for me. I wanted a 45-70 anyway. So, I have some knowledge of doubles, but not near as much as you guys obviously have.

Again, thanks for all the feedback and input.

Take Care!
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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If it was me, before I made any modifications to the rifle I would have someone else shoot it and see if it does the same.

465h&H
 
Posts: 5686 | Location: Nampa, Idaho | Registered: 10 February 2005Reply With Quote
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Yes Sir!

That's another good idea and one I'll do before I make any changes.

Thanks!
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 465H&H:
If it was me, before I made any modifications to the rifle I would have someone else shoot it and see if it does the same.

465h&H



Good point.

I've shot a few DR's where the owners have said they don't shoot, only to prove with a mate that they do.
 
Posts: 3191 | Location: Victoria, Australia | Registered: 01 March 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 500N:
quote:
Originally posted by 465H&H:
If it was me, before I made any modifications to the rifle I would have someone else shoot it and see if it does the same.

465h&H



Good point.

I've shot a few DR's where the owners have said they don't shoot, only to prove with a mate that they do.


With all do respect Sirs, who cares where the point of impact is for "others"??? Confused


Deo Vindice,

Don

Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780
 
Posts: 1710 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 01 February 2009Reply With Quote
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DD

Because the gun could be shooting fine but it's him that is the problem
and it's a bit late once you have played with metal.

Also, it takes out one of the variables and as you know, once you can take out
a variable, you keep going until you fine the only one left that affects it.

Sorry, I agree, get someone else to shoot it but make sure they use the same sight picture.
- it at least will add to the knowledge base on the gun.

.
 
Posts: 3191 | Location: Victoria, Australia | Registered: 01 March 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 500N:
DD

Because the gun could be shooting fine but it's him that is the problem
and it's a bit late once you have played with metal.

Also, it takes out one of the variables and as you know, once you can take out
a variable, you keep going until you fine the only one left that affects it.

Sorry, I agree, get someone else to shoot it but make sure they use the same sight picture.
- it at least will add to the knowledge base on the gun.

.


Ah, but the D.R. world is a love/hate relationship.

Point is my friend, for example, I bird dogged a very nice fully left hand .450-.400 V-C for a friend a couple weeks ago. He has a disability which no longer permits him to shoot right handed. Upon receipt of the gun he came up to my place. He was shooting about 7" to the right and about 4" high (with very consistant groups!). When I shot the gun it was about dead nuts on. I told my him that it didn't make a fat rat's ass where it shot for me. When the buff has lowered his head, he needs not have to think about where "his" gun shoots for "others". I want the gun to shoot to "his" point of hold, not mine. I drifted the rear sight to the left until it was perfect. I then suggested he send the gun to JJ with all the history for the final tune.


Deo Vindice,

Don

Sons of Confederate Veterans Black Horse Camp #780
 
Posts: 1710 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 01 February 2009Reply With Quote
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You just contradicted yourself.

By YOU shooting the gun, you then knew it was him and not the gun. Otherwise he might have thought the gun didn't shoot when in fact their was nothing wrong with the gun.

The guy who owns this gun doesn't know that - it could be the gun and not him.

Or something else like bullet seating depth or whatever.


.
 
Posts: 3191 | Location: Victoria, Australia | Registered: 01 March 2007Reply With Quote
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Mr. Hansen,

That is a great set up for a ghost ring sight. I wonder where I could find something like that for mine. It would be great since I'm so used to shooting with peep sights already.

I have a couple of real good gunsmiths here in the area that could tackle a job like that..i think. If not, I could probably find one on this board that could do it.

If I could get or have an adjustable sight like that I could shoot almost any load in the gun couldn't I?

If they are all printing close together and just are high, having an adjustable rear sight that could be raised or lowered would be ideal wouldn't it?

Thanks for pointing that out. Now I have a whole new outlook and a whole new mission to work on....getting a rear ghost ring sight!!!

Thanks!!!
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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Posts: 432 | Location: California | Registered: 01 August 2008Reply With Quote
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Those are great ideas. Thanks.

I also found another one that might work as well.

http://www.skinnersights.com/lo-pro_sight_7.html

Check this one out.

Thanks.
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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Ok Mr. Hansen,

I'm now attempting to upload some photos of my double as you requested. I hope I do this right.....

Here goes:





















































So, what do you think?
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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Do you know who made this conversion? Was it made in Wisc. by chance?


NRA Life
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Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
 
Posts: 4096 | Location: Cherkasy Ukraine  | Registered: 19 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Yes Sir!
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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Small world!
I have a 450NE that he built. That guy regulates the rifles very well.


NRA Life
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Today's Quote:
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
 
Posts: 4096 | Location: Cherkasy Ukraine  | Registered: 19 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Yes Sir!!

He sure does!!

Mine shoots great. I love it.

He does great work on the gun also. It's nice and tight, and looks very classic. I don't think I could have spent my money wiser.

Of course, if I had lots of money, i could have bought a Kreighoff or a Merkel, but the money simply is not available.

Yep, it's a keeper.
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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Hey Guys,

Me Again....

Look closely at the front sight on my double. You'll see it has an express style insert for the bead sight.

My question is where can I buy one that's a little taler.

I'm still working on this problem and will add photos of my targets as soon as I can.

Thanks for all your help!!
 
Posts: 29 | Location: US | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With Quote
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I think Recnagel make them. One German company certainly does.

Also here in the US
www.newenglandcustomgun.com

.
 
Posts: 3191 | Location: Victoria, Australia | Registered: 01 March 2007Reply With Quote
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I was having the same exact problem with a 450bpe.... Great groups, but 8" high. I taped a length of finish nail over the front blade and shot several groups. Then did some math with the difference in the frond blade height and the corrosponding groups. I had JJ make a new front blade at the needed height, and I am dead on now.
ND Wink


Stephen Grant 500BPE
Joseph Harkom 450BPE
 
Posts: 625 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: 21 October 2008Reply With Quote
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http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/


Don't ask me how I know..


NRA Life
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Today's Quote:
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Give a man a welfare check, a free cell phone with free monthly minutes, food stamps, section 8 housing, a forty ounce malt liquor, a crack pipe and some Air Jordan's and he votes Democrat for a lifetime.
 
Posts: 4096 | Location: Cherkasy Ukraine  | Registered: 19 November 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 4570NUT:
It's a custom job that I had built on a Simson shotgun action. The gun is not a REAL double rifle, but it will have to do for me since I don't have the money to shell out for a REAL double.


It looks like a "real double rifle" to me. A 1/2" to 1" group in 45/70 means it shoots like a double rifle, or actually shoots better than most double rifles. Be proud and happy with what you have.


When the buffalo are gone we will hunt mice, for we are hunters, and we want our freedom---Sitting Bull

.470 Chapuis double; 9.3x74R Mathelon triple; 30-06 Winchester O/U
 
Posts: 105 | Location: Rockville, MD USA | Registered: 10 April 2007Reply With Quote
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