I am leaning towards the 450NE for my first double; I am a traditionalist and enjoy the fact the 450 was the first smokeless DG cartridge (to come out of the black powder rounds...and if my history is correct).

loaded to standard ballistics, can you guys who know offer your thoughts on differences in the power/punch of recoil of these three or similar rounds?

concerning ammo availability in Africa, i trust 470NE, for example, is one of the most popular rounds to be found. what would you guys say ref the 450NE? Thanks

I like the .450 because the case diameter is less than the .470/.500 and it can make up into a slimmer rifle.

Eagle11,

If you live anywhere near the New Jersey - Pennsy. border you should let me know.

In March I am going to hook up with Doc52 and maybe his son 577NitroExpress.

Retreever will be trying to attend too.

We're shooting 500NE and 450 #2 NE if Retreever makes it.

Plus some bolt guns maybe.

Eagle11,

You out there???

Maybe a bit off topic, but do you think that the Remmington/Spartan double in 45-70 could be safely converted to 450#2 ?? If so, I definetly want one.

quote:

Originally posted by Wolfgar:
Maybe a bit off topic, but do you think that the Remmington/Spartan double in 45-70 could be safely converted to 450#2 ?? If so, I definetly want one.

It only weighs 7 1/2 lbs

Hog Killer

Can it be done?

quote:

Originally posted by Eagle11:
I am leaning towards the 450NE for my first double; I am a traditionalist and enjoy the fact the 450 was the first smokeless DG cartridge (to come out of the black powder rounds...and if my history is correct).

loaded to standard ballistics, can you guys who know offer your thoughts on differences in the power/punch of recoil of these three or similar rounds?

concerning ammo availability in Africa, i trust 470NE, for example, is one of the most popular rounds to be found. what would you guys say ref the 450NE? Thanks

If you lost your ammo even the .416 rigby is difficult tu get quickly on Safari!

So the .470 NE would not be better!

The 450 N.E. 3 1/4 is fine. Noto too fat not too high pressure, heavy bullets in .458. That means good penetration and not so expensive components. And it it the mother of all N.E.-cartridges in this class.

Components would be my only concern:

450 brass is available from Hülsen-Horneber.
Other than that, you've got bertram (which has a poor reputation amongst most here.)

470 brass is available from Norma, Jamison (cheap $), Federal and Hülsen - Horneber.

Convenience of components and resale both lean towards the 470, but hey - if the potential brass problem is not a problem - then go for the 450.

PS - Don't count on being able to find ammo for either one in africa... unless your PH relaods for that same caliber. It's just not likely to happen.

I found that 470 was relatively available in Zim. You would be buying a PH's own ammo and he will hold it dear but you could get it. Seamed easier to come across than even 375!

JPK

I'd edit if I knew how too but will add that my PH in Oct shot a 470 so maybe we just ran across every other PH who shoots one on our off time?

JPK

I'd think that you'd have a vast number of bullet options for the 450, assuming you like handloading of course, a compared to the other calibers.

I'm not sure there's enough steel to handle the recoil in one of those Baikal/Spartan doubles. (Action strength would be my main concern.) Stock would need reinforcing too, I think. I'm sure somebody will try it.

Recoil according to Beartooth would be 74 ft.pounds @ 25 fps. OUCH!! The same round in an 11.5 lb rifle would be 49 ft.pounds @ 17 fps, about double the recoil my Winchester Big-Bore 444 Marlin 300 grain load at around 2000 fps.