Morris has a interesting (probably only to me) over and under double rifle on a Teck action Krieghoff. The gun comes with a set of factory 375 barrels, and a set of 416 barrels made by a gunsmith (presumably a graduate of Ferlach, Liege or Suhl who knows what he is doing).

I missed the boat on a 416/500 & 9.3x74 dual barreled Krieghoff classic for $12000, prices have changed and, and I think this is an interesting deal.

Can someone who isn't going to show anti-over under bias let me know what you think?

My last double rifles was a Blaser S-2, so I have that strange de-cocker German disease.

My first double rifle was a Krieghoff Teck, bought in 1970, in caliber .458 Winchester Magnum, with sets of factory barrels in .375 H&H and 20 gauge 3" Magnum. (At the time, Krieghoff did not offer the Teck in 12 gauge, and at least in the US, 16 gauge ammunition is hard to find.)

It accompanied me on three hunting trips to Africa, two in Kenya, one in Tanzania, and accounted for four of the big five, everything but rhino, which I took with what was then my heavy rifle, a .505 wildcat on a shortened .460 Weatherby case. I had complete confidence in the rifle and it never let me down.

Here is a much younger me in 1971 with my second elephant, a single tusker. However the single tusk weighed in at 94 pounds. Taken near the Tana River, in Kenya.



At the time, I was thoroughly immersed in shooting international skeet, and my weapon of choice was a Perrazi O/U, so the configuration was totally familiar to me, and I never experienced any of the problems attributed to O/U double rifles, such as an increased angle of gape in loading. My Trumpf is equipped with ejectors, which can be changed to extractors in a few minutes with only a screw driver.

I have since acquired a Teck combination gun in 12 gauge/ 7X75 SE vom Hofe. I use an insert barrel, caliber 6X52R Bretschneider, in the shotgun barrel, making that Teck an improvised Bergstutzen.

I also have an Ulm Primus sidelock double rifle by Krieghoff, also an over and under, in caliber 9.3X74R, so you can see, I am thoroughly convinced of that configuration's virtues.

Wow, I want to be you when I grow up.

Thanks for the words of encouragement, I'll see if I can get one.

O/U DR's get no respect here on AR,I own several double rifles,have hunted DG with them,although I like both configurations SXS or O/U,my favorite gun is an O/U with short 21" barrels in 458 Lott,it is one of the very few that CZ imported way back some years ago,it is the most accurate gun I own,very quick to the shoulder & perfectly reliable even with a belted case.

Bal, I wish you would just stop bringing that up.

I remember a listing on GB 6-8 years ago for a Krieghoff Primus sidelock 458 for $6,500. What was I thinking :-(

I resubmit my comment posted August 2015.

Regulation is everything. I offer the following based upon working in the safari industry in South Africa for the past seven years and am also in the wildlife ranching business. Graduated from the SA National Professional Hunting School. Most clients with doubles arrive with a S/S. However, occasionally someone brings a O/U (primarily Heym or Blaser). Eventually the subject of regulation is broached. I have not heard one regulation difficulty from an O/U user. I have harvested cape buffalo and lion with .450 NE S/S. But as someone who uses a DR as a working tool, I would not hesitate to make my next DR (I already own 3 S/S) an O/U. No doubt the S/S has it for elegance. I shoot Vintager shotgun matches with S/S...but all my other competition guns and field guns are O/U. Perhaps the cure to regulation is the O/U? Just a thought.

Eagle One

Oh a Heym 55 is a wonderful gun. They make them in 450/400 but I doubt I will ever own one. They are expensive, I think like $30,000.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Bal, I wish you would just stop bringing that up.

Heym makes O/U rifles up to and including .500 NE.

Eagle One

quote:

Originally posted by Bill73:
O/U DR's get no respect here on AR,I own several double rifles,have hunted DG with them,although I like both configurations SXS or O/U,my favorite gun is an O/U with short 21" barrels in 458 Lott,it is one of the very few that CZ imported way back some years ago,it is the most accurate gun I own,very quick to the shoulder & perfectly reliable even with a belted case.

Oh, I almost forgot. Back in the 70's, when my firm was importing Krieghoffs commercially, I came up with an idea for a DR cartridge which would match most of the no longer manufactured classic British cartridges in performance, would generate less pressure than the .458 Winchester and would have a rim. I decided that the .375 H&H Flanged Magnum case, opened up to accommodate a .458 caliber bullet, would fill all those requirements, and had a reamer made.

Using a Winchester High Wall single shot for a test bed, and using Berdan primed .375 H&H Flanged brass, I developed an appropriate load which matched the printed performance of the .458 Winchester Magnum. I then sent the reamer, dies and cases to Krieghoff with a description of the load. In due course, I received a Teck DR back, chambered for the cartridge, which I decided to name the .450 C&W Magnum, after then name of our firm, Creighton & Warren.

Sadly, the Arab oil embargo struck just then, and with the resulting recession, manufacturing and marketing a new cartridge was not in the picture, although I recall getting a quote from Winchester for manufacturing the cartridge cases.

In a moment of weakness, I sold the .450 C&W, but years later, with Boxer primed .375 Flanged brass for the first time available, I was able to buy it back. I mention the Boxer priming, because having to deal with depriming Berdan cases was a royal pain in the posterior and played an important role in my decision to sell the rifle in the first place.

The rifle is a real pleasure to shoot. The cartridges can be loaded using either .450 Watts or .458 Lott dies.

[QUOTE]My last double rifles was a Blaser S-2, so I have that strange de-cocker German disease.[/QUOTE\]

Sorry, Germanic as its is, the Teck does not feature a de-cocking device, which I, incidentally, am allergic to in a double rifle. They are fine in a drilling, and all my drillings, save one, have the "separate Kugelspannung", or separate rifle barrel cocking.

Xausa,

Thank you for the interesting history lesson. I had often wondered why there was no 458 WCF rimmed.

I personally love decockers, and it is the thing that attracted me to the Krieghoff Classic and Blaser S-2 rifles.

When petty things like diapers and our childrens college education don't get in the way I can see a few doubles again in my future (ah to be single again, and carefree).

That non-decocker issue wouldn't stop me from buying a Teck, that is for sure.

Here's a Krieghoff Tech 458 for $3K less.

http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100554808

Thanks John,

Morris has a lot of "wishful thinking" in his sales prices. I have bought from him before, and a deal can usually be worked out.

Yes, with Morris, be polite and act like a gentleman...he will negotiate.

John,

That is solid advice for all life's trials and tribulations.

Thank you for your help with this as always.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
Xausa,

Thank you for the interesting history lesson. I had often wondered why there was no 458 WCF rimmed.

I personally love decockers, and it is the thing that attracted me to the Krieghoff Classic and Blaser S-2 rifles.

When petty things like diapers and our childrens college education don't get in the way I can see a few doubles again in my future (ah to be single again, and carefree).

That non-decocker issue wouldn't stop me from buying a Teck, that is for sure.

I side with XUSA on this one--
While the Teck is a great rifle-

Try cocking a K gun Classic DR while shouldered--
Maybe the Hulk could--us mere mortals--not so much
De-cockers may very well be the safest action from a discharge point of view--

But for a cock and de-cock in a hurry while shouldered , particularly when in close to DG --

Please give me a conventional safety and intercepting sears instead--

(yes, I have owned de-ockers --K guns and Blasers)

Thanks!

Clan_Colla,
Sorry to hear of your experience with the decocking device,I have a 500-416 K gun,I too was wary of using a gun of this design versus a traditional safety,but I found it to be a non issue,I took this gun on a buff & PG hunt with absolutely no issues whatsoever,I think I arm the gun as I am bringing it to my shoulder,my friend nitro450exp has a Kgun as well in 470 NE ,he is very happy with his gun as well.

If you watch videos of Buzz Charlton's elephant hunts, it seems almost all the hunters are using Krieghoff doubles.

"I think I arm the gun as I am bringing it to my shoulder"

EXACTLY-----Now--Try doing it AT the Shoulder-

Then again--
it is your life at 15 paces-----Not mine

I have owned 2 K Gun De-cocker doubles, and hunted with them--
as previously stated they were accurate rifles--
however, upon receipt-- the early gun ('94 or 95-96-not sure) would double ( no --not--strummed)
and was sent back for the "fix"

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Biebs:
Here's a Krieghoff Tech 458 for $3K less./QUOTE]
I think I recognize that Krieghoff. I believe it belonged to a friend of mine, now deceased, whose guns were sold off after his death. He made one trip to Africa with me in 1975.

quote:

Originally posted by Clan_Colla:
"I think I arm the gun as I am bringing it to my shoulder"

EXACTLY-----Now--Try doing it AT the Shoulder-

Then again--
it is your life at 15 paces-----Not mine

I have owned 2 K Gun De-cocker doubles, and hunted with them--
as previously stated they were accurate rifles--
however, upon receipt-- the early gun ('94 or 95-96-not sure) would double ( no --not--strummed)
and was sent back for the "fix"

It appears that my post might have offended you,that was not my intention,my life is very safe at any range with my K gun in hand or with any of the guns that I shoot,I take the time to learn my guns,again no offense was meant & I am sorry if it did,have a great day!

With the K Gun-Cocking and de-cocking on the way up and on the way down is generally easily accomplished-
partly by using the weight of the rifle against itself to operate the cocking device-
and- this was my K Gun SOP as well-

However, I would love to see you or anyone post a video of rapidly cocking and de-cocking a K Gun Classic from the shoulder without releasing the grip of the rear hand from the rifle's wrist- and relinquishing point of aim-

Presumably, it could be possible--
let's say, an extremely long thumbed individual with remarkable thumb strength in addition to their unusual thumb length-

In contrast,
An average or a even short thumbed individual (or even one with less than normal strength)
can routinely can operate a "standard" tang safety, intercepting sear rifle while maintaining wrist grip control and keeping their point of aim-

It is a functional choice made by the hunter-

a rifle while shouldered and on target that is easily operated with minimal motion while maintaining a "safed" condition until the point of discharge-
or the K Gun's inherent extra motion-,grip release, loss of aiming point

I believe that the ability and utility -to at any moment- in any controlled rifle position to instantly safe and unsafe the rifle trumps the cocker/de-cockers presumed advantage of safety -

Having hunted with both it is my choice-
your choice is obviously different

I maintain my life at 10-15 paces is "safer" without the K Gun's cocker/de-cocker- at 50,it might be a draw

But, in a right here ,right now situation-
it is not even a close choice