quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
Apples to oranges. Yet, at least one B. Rizzini was regulated well. Nice cluster on this target.
http://www.gunsinternational.c...cfm?gun_id=100639485

If that is the makers proof target it means absolutely nothing. Proof targets that come with a new rifle are nothing more than window dressing. They are always only two shots, and have no identifying labels which bullet came from which barrel. In addition only two shots doesn't tell you anything except that two bullets hit the target.

In the case of the target for this rifle the two bullets seem to be hitting the same hole. If all bullets are hitting the same ragged hole, then this indicates the rifle is crossing at that distance.

This is the reason a test target should show four shots from each barrel, and identified on the target as to the order of firing, and from which barrel each shot came from on the target. Then to find how regulated the rifle is, finding the CENTER of each barrels individual group in relation to the other barrels individual barrel group CENTER.
Though individual shots will cross into the group of the other barrel, the centers of each barrels group will never cross at any distance if the rifle is regulated properly.

The rifle in this case may well be properly regulated but the target doesn't prove that.

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quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Steel, regardless of brand, if you're looking for your first double rifle, I'd shoot a 500 NE before you pony up for one. To me at least, DRs don't seem to handle recoil as well as bolt rifles, IE the felt recoil will be greater with a DR than with a bolt rifle of the same or similar caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by steel:
Naples florida

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Steel, regardless of brand, if you're looking for your first double rifle, I'd shoot a 500 NE before you pony up for one. To me at least, DRs don't seem to handle recoil as well as bolt rifles, IE the felt recoil will be greater with a DR than with a bolt rifle of the same or similar caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Steel, regardless of brand, if you're looking for your first double rifle, I'd shoot a 500 NE before you pony up for one. To me at least, DRs don't seem to handle recoil as well as bolt rifles, IE the felt recoil will be greater with a DR than with a bolt rifle of the same or similar caliber.

I am 100% with Jon. I shot thousand of rounds through big bore bolt actions. I shot maybe 20 rounds with a 470 NE. I was not prepared for my first shot with a 500 NE. It kicked me like I have never been kicked before. I could not shoot that gun.

Fit means everything.

quote:

Originally posted by Antlers:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Steel, regardless of brand, if you're looking for your first double rifle, I'd shoot a 500 NE before you pony up for one. To me at least, DRs don't seem to handle recoil as well as bolt rifles, IE the felt recoil will be greater with a DR than with a bolt rifle of the same or similar caliber.

Interesting...not my experience at all. Most (not all) big bore doubles (470 - 577) that I have shot were comparable or a little more comfortable from the recoil perspective relative to big bore bolt guns.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
most newer doubles chambered for 500NE will actually be lighter than the same brand chambered for 375 H&H or 470NE. This is because the barrels are often the same outside profile for the 500NE as it is for the 375H&H with the only difference being the bore size inside the barrel.

I offer the Merkels as an example. The 500NE is actually lighter than the 375H&H because of the steel removed for the larger chamber, and bore size inside the same outside profile of the barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by 5seventy:

A DR chambered for .375 H&H, but having the same outside barrel diameter and profile as a 470NE/500NE, would handle very poorly.
I don't think Merkel would do that.

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
You are no doubt correct about the handling being a little barrel heavy, and the profile of the 375H&H may well be smaller and I don't have one to look at here. However I do have a 470NE and the 500NE has the same outside diameter barrels and the 500NE rifle is lighter than the 470NE Merkel 140-2 safari. I doesn't handle too badly but the recoil is much more punishing with the 500NE.

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quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by Antlers:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Steel, regardless of brand, if you're looking for your first double rifle, I'd shoot a 500 NE before you pony up for one. To me at least, DRs don't seem to handle recoil as well as bolt rifles, IE the felt recoil will be greater with a DR than with a bolt rifle of the same or similar caliber.

Interesting...not my experience at all. Most (not all) big bore doubles (470 - 577) that I have shot were comparable or a little more comfortable from the recoil perspective relative to big bore bolt guns.

quote:

Originally posted by 5seventy:
My post was concerning your statement that the 375H&H and 500NE Merkel 140-2 DR's have the same outside barrel diameter and profile, and that the 500 is lighter than the 375.

That's not right.

Below has been corrected to indicate the 500NE being only lighter than the 470NE Merkel. Before I quite incorrectly added the 375H&H Merkel in that comparison. Sorry about that folks!

Antler your experience may be that the big bore doubles you have shot were weighted properly for the chambering while most newer doubles chambered for 500NE will actually be lighter than the same brand chambered for 470NE. This is because the barrels are often the same outside profile for the 500NE as it is for the 470NE with the only difference being the bore size inside the barrel.

I offer the Merkels as an example. The 500NE is actually lighter than the 470NE because of the steel removed for the larger chamber, and bore size inside the same outside profile of the barrels.

I have a 470NE mod 140-2 Safari 470NE and the 500NE 140-2 is almost a pound lighter resulting in a very noticeable rise in recoil with the 500NE in the same rifle.

In the higher grade doubles everything is made to accommodate only the chambering ordered, while the off the shelf rifles are fitted with one outside profile no matter the larger chamberings. Rifle like Merkel, chapuis, Krieghoff, all utilize one barrel profile in the larger chamberings for all the doubles to cut cost to reach a price point for the units in all chamberings offered.

................Just a thought!

....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982

Hands of Old Elmer Keith

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Mac is right and as I said before fit is everything.

I have had 3 different 500 NEs. The first was a Heym. As noted earlier, I could not shoot it. It HAMMERED me.

The next was a VC something or another with a round body. I had no problem shooting it except for whacking my middle finger on the trigger guard.

I up graded to a much more jazzed up VC. The new one I can shoot with no problem. It does NOT hammer my finger like the other one did.

Fit is everything.