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My appologies if this has been hashed out before. Most of my hunting is done in Northern Alberta for deer, moose and soon, bear. I have had the pleasure of taking deer with my 9.3x74R Merkel 141E and, enjoy the gun for just plain plinking. I am going to Africa in the next year or two; Namibia or Zimbabwe. I want to hunt cape buffalo and plains game and have been told my 9.3 isn't big enough. I don't want to buy a D.R. just for Africa but, would like to have a calibre suitable for taking cape buff and still be usefull for deer and moose. The idea of selling my D.R. after returning from Africa would be out of the question as I enjoy the history and memories of firearms used on hunts. So now, let the flood gate of opinion open and may I be drowned in information. What do you think the "best" D.R. calibre would be for the situation. Kind regards, Carpediem P.S. Appologies for the spelling. It's late. No politician who supports gun control should recieve armed protection paid for by those he is trying to disarm. Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-scotch in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!" Madly Off In All Directions | ||
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If Its a one off buffalo hunt I would just use the 9.3. I have found it works quite well on Buffalo and is not all that dissimilar to the renown 375H&H and even closer to the performance of the 375Flanged Magnum. But If you plan on doing Safari more often, then the extra punch and bullet diameter of a 450/400 with a QD scope would be ideal. The 40cal is about as heavy a rifle and recoil I would want to scope. | |||
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Me too. | |||
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With the right bullet the 9.3 will kill buffalo fine. It won't flatten them with every shot but it is as good as a 375. If you want to go up in caliber the 450-400 is a nice medium but why not move up to a 450NE and you will have a gun that can be used for anything. Lots of .458 bullets available for it and it works great with light loads using 300 gr cheap bullets. Sam | |||
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450 400 3 inch. It's what I'm going to have built. I will be primarily going to use it up here. Double Rifles, This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as bolt rifle. An elegant weapon for a more civilized age. DRSS Chapuis 9.3x74R NRA Life Member | |||
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How about a multiple barrel set. Heym showed a beautiful 4 barrel set on the forum a few weeks ago and Searcy has one for sale on his website right now (470 NE, 375fl, 12 GA) | |||
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Both the above quotes are good advice. Like the two above if the buffalo will be a one off safari, then I’d simply use the 9.3X74R Merkel. As suggested above If the rifle will be used most of the time in Canada even for grizz I would either keep the 9.3 or go to the 450/400NE 3 inch with a good QD scope mount and a scope like the 1.1-4 Trijicon with a green illumination, and hunt everything from rabbit to elephant with it! ….......................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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450/400 3" NE. Hornady brass is readily available and not too expensive. There is also a good selection of bullets, and the mild recoil makes this a double you can shoot all day long without discomfort. I own 2 doubles and one single shot in this caliber. | |||
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A little different suggestion. Take two rifles to Africa. Your 9,3X74R and a scope sighted bolt rifle, maybe chambered in .375 or .416 Ruger. If you are set on two doubles, the 450/400 is a wonderful caliber. If you can stand a bit more recoil, the 500/.416 is even better. If you are interested in a Krieghoff 500/.416, PM me. I will sell mine for $7,500 (plus shipping) with dies and a lifetime supply of brass. I just can't get out and hunt like I used too. Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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Don't know how much time you have, CD570, but a possibility could be to add a set of barrels to your Merkel. You can ask a Merkel dealer about cost and delivery time and which caliber they are willing to mate to your 9.3 but surely the .375 flanged which may not be much more powerful, but would likely be legal (check the kilojoules which, as I recall, is what Namibia regulations cite). You might be able to add a 450/400 but 450 Nitro likely takes a bigger action than you now own. Worth checking, 'tho. Regards, Tim | |||
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450-400. I never had much use for dual barrel setups; you never seem to have to optimum one installed when you need it. Or, Buy that Krieghoff; that is a give away price and you can get all kinds and weights of 416 bullets. | |||
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Dave, PM sent. DRSS | |||
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Someone has first dibs on my 500/.416 Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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The 400 would be my answer to the question, but you already have a 9.3 - that will do just fine. Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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There you go! Antlers Double Rifle Shooters Society Heym 450/400 3" | |||
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David: That is one heck of nice deal, I would have jumped on it immediately if I wasn't in the middle of a project, developing my own 450-400 cartridge equivalent in power to that of the 500-416 and already own 2 rifles in the 450-400 NE. Bill73: If you ended up buying David's 500-416, I believe you ended up with a very excellent cartridge for Hunting all African DG. Enjoy it and good luck. Best regards Malek Good shooting/hunting and God's best Best regards Malek Good Hunting/Shooting and God's best. | |||
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I'd say if you have the 9.3, it will do. For myself, I have a 30R coming to use around here, and will probably get a 450/400 as I already have all the stuff for it. Krieghoff Classic 30R Blaser Stevens 044-1/2 218 Bee Ruger #1A 7-08 Rem 700 7-08 Tikka t3x lite 6.5 creedmo Tikka TAC A1 6.5 creedmo Win 1885 300H&H. 223Rem Merkel K1 7 Rem mag CCFR | |||
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Being 53 years of age, I am hoping to start going to Africa annually to hunt. My hope is to hunt cape buff on several occasions as well as plains game. I think the 9.3 would be good for plains game. I have been taking a real hard look at the 450-400 and thinking about having it made by bailey bradshaw. I love the concept of the falling block double. It's soooo cute  .What is the difference between the 3" and the 31/4"? Other than 1/4". And what about the 450 nitro express? Regards, Carpediem No politician who supports gun control should recieve armed protection paid for by those he is trying to disarm. Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways-scotch in one hand-Chocolate in the other-body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WHOO-HOO, WHAT A RIDE!!" Madly Off In All Directions | |||
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My biggest cape buff in horn and body was killed with one shot from my 9,3x74R double rifle, a 286gr Woodleigh soft to the center of his chest, as he was facing me. He was down and dead in less than 40 yards. I will agree that the 9,3, and the 375 H&H is a little light for cape buff, but will worl just fine if well handles. However a 450/400 double and a 9,3x74R double make a great pair of hunting rifles for Africa. Or even for shooting Texas deer and pigs, or bear anywhere in the US of A. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Many fine double rifles calibers exist. However my need for a double is not to reach a socalled "one-caliber-for-all". I believe the best doublerifle caliber in the .577 nitroExpress for what I believe a double is ought the be used for..up close and two fast shots that penetrate deep with stopping effect. DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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+1  I am reminded of the story that John Taylor tells to illustrate his point about an all around rifle. It is about a London stockbroker that had Holland & Holland build him a 375HH Mag FL. He traveled all over the world hunting all kind of animals, from elephant to mountain sheep and he was well satisfied and believed to have been well equipped. The 9.3x74R is right there on par with the 375HH MAG FL Best regards Malek Good shooting/hunting and God's best Best regards Malek Good Hunting/Shooting and God's best. | |||
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You might consider the 9.5x74R instead of the 9.3 x74R. Using the 9.3's brass necked open a few thousandths, the 9.5 has the .375 diameter bullet, (of which there are very many options). D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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+1  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- “A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition” ― Rudyard Kipling | |||
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If I knew then what I know now. Instead of owning a 9.3x74 and a 470 nito. I would own one very nice 450-400. I found my self on a brownbear trail with fresh tracks and scat not long ago.I could not see my feet and barley over the top of the cover, my 9.3 felt tiny in that heavy cover. The 450-400 that I have handled and shot felt alive and fast. They were softer shooting than my 9.3 and faster than my 470. You can scope any double, I can shoot my 470 faster with the nikon than with Irons. I would get a 450-400 with 26" barrels, at 59 the front sight on 26" barrel is much clearer than on 24" barrels. I have seen Hornady 450-400 ammo at cabelas for 90 bucks. JD DRSS 9.3X74 tika 512 9.3X74 SXS Merkel 140 in 470 Nitro | |||
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Just about every book I've read including Wright's and Boddington's to name just two, recommend the 450NE as the ideal caliber for doubles or at least what they would build....and I agreed!  USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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I think the 450 class DR rifles were built with big cats in mind. | |||
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I USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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could be,just a thought | |||
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450 Class; remember that started out life as a BPE round and wasn't considered a DG round at all. It only fired a 300 (it varied from 270 to 365 or so) grain bullet at less than 2000 fps. So maybe ok for small cats? Then in 1898 it was loaded with cordite and a 480 grainer, and you know the rest of the story. It then, was a true DG cartridge upon which all others were patterned. (as a concept, not dimensionally) Now, the 500 BPE, you could say that was used for cats, as I think it was the most popular round in India for tigers. Seems like every Maharajah had one. | |||
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Hmmm ... Funny how a nominal 500gr bullet traveling at a nominal 2150fps generating a nominal 5,000 lb/ft of energy became the definition of a true DG stopping rifle. Funny how the 450NE and class of rifle fit that bill exactly. Funny that anyone would actually state that class of rifle was suitable only for cats. Funny! Once again, completely off the mark. Doesn't it get old after awhile? All the against the grain comments, acting out to get negative attention instead of being ignored? | |||
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most popular round in India for tigers...that is my point | |||
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All that my dad had was the good ole .303 to hunt Tigers in India,he is still alive today,it's a pity,now that I am hunting Africa,I cannot exchange stories with him,his mental condition will not permit it  DRSS | |||
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George: I think Todd and jorge are correct. In the heyday of African hunting, the various 450s were considered suitable for most any game, even in the think stuff. However, I think that a 500 grain bullet at 2,000-2150 fps was considered as decidedly heavy for cats. I think I heard you say that you are getting a new Searcy. What caliber is it? Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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I decided to get one(500NE) for going after a bull elephant and to go back to the days I hunted small game with my double barreled shotgun-only this time it is a rifle and the place is Africa.I have enjoyed the bolt action rifle.The time has come when almost all the practice I will be doing will be with a 308 and not the big bores.My body has had enough of big recoil for fun.I chose the 500NE because I believe in the bigger the better for heavy DG game like ele.I hope I will get to hunt ele and bring some tusks back home if only once. I would like a 450 and I think it would be a good choice for buff but it will have to wait.I say a good choice for buff because I enjoy shooting them from longer distances as well as close in.The feeling of setting some open sights on a buff 150yds away in some beautiful area like Makuti should be really something. | |||
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As many others have written, your 9.3x74R will do just fine. If, like most of us one DR is just not enough AND the other double would have cross purpose for deer and moose back home, I'd say your other double should be anything from 450 to 600NE. As much as I like the 450-400 to me it's not enough of a step up from the 9.3 to make it really worth having both. If you were selling the 9.3 then the 450-400 would get my vote. Since I get the impression that your 9.3x74R isn't going anywhere then my personal sdvice would be a 450NE, 500NE, 577NE or a 600NE with my personal choice being the 600NE - all of which can kill deer and moose pretty dead. The 450 is awesome as the variety of bullets is unmatched by the others. NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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I agree with Doc's assessment concerning the 9.3 and 450/400 pairing. My opinion, and this is what I have personally settled on, is the 9.3X74R paired with the 500NE. | |||
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Count me in...while .400/.500 is driving on the middle of the road chasing Eles - 9,3 (especially scoped) might try a pass on the right side while on Buff, Leo & Co...driving home for Christmas - are we? | |||
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