I have used all three of these calibres in double rifles on a wide variety of game, from squirrels to elephant.

I have taken the same and or similar game with all 3 calibers, including Cape buffalo and elephants.
This post may shock some of you. However I have nothing to prove, I do not champion one of these cartridges over the others, I am just reporting what I have observed, and what I FEEL.

Yes FEEL....
When you hunt Dangerous Game, or any game for that matter you must have confidence in you rifle choice and your calibre choice.

When you are aiming at an animal is not the time to second guess your selection.

I beleive in Physics.
The 400 is a bigger Hammer than the 9,3.... The 450 No2 is a bigger Hammer than the 450/400....

However in the field I have noticed NO DIFFERENCE in their performance.
NONE....

Now 500 grains took some flack for his tests in a downed elephant when he said his number of shots did not make for a valid statistical sample.

I am not claiming MY results are the difinitive answer.
However, with similar hits I have observed the same results with all 3 of these calibres.

In fact on the giraffe and buffalo I shot with the 9,3 it took the fewest number of rounds by a wide margin. Again my sample was small, still the 9,3x74R has suprised me a great deal on the BIG stuff.

I will admit when I shot the giraffe the buff and the elephant with the 9,3, immediately before I aimed at the animal I had the feeling "This 9,3 is a little light for this".
But my results were totally adverse to that thinking.

I now have a lot of confidence in the 9,3x74R.

I used my 450/400 3 1/4" quite a bit on my last Safari as it was the first time I had it in Africa.
I shot a baboon, warthog, buffalo, bull elephant and a lion. At no time did I have any fellings of not having enough "power" for the job.

So, baised on my personal experience I have no problem recommending the 9,3x74 R double to be used on cape buff and elephant if you can place your bullets in the right place.
I do not consider it a stopper... but it is adequate for the Sport hunter.

The 450/400 is IMHO the best double rifle over .375 for the modern client hunter.
If scoped, it is pure nirvana. Scoped a 450/400 double is the best hunting rifle on the Planet for the modern African Client, in my opinion.

Only if you are going to hunt a LOT of elephants will a 450/470 class double prove superior.

I have shot several elephants at 6 yards and under, including one at 5 yards with the 9,3. I would not hesitate to use the 400 under the same conditions.

I would never want to go to Africa with only one rifle. I think a scoped double in 9,3x74R, along with a 400 or bigger double is a perfect choice, at least for Zimbabwe where I have hunted 3 Safaris for a total of about 80 days.

My 450 No2 is my favorite rifle, however the scoped 450/400 is the better hunting tool for everything except maybe elephants up CLOSE, remember I still BELIEVE in Physics.

So is the 450/400 enough for elephants???
I absolutely think it is.
The 400 well handled is better than the 700 hitting around the fringes, IMHO.

Also, I would not hesitate to take a 9,3x74R as my primary double on a buffalo/lion/elephant hunt. The only buffalo, my biggest body wise and horn wise, taken with one shot was with my 9,3, and I killed a cow elephant at 5 yards with it as well, so I have put my Life where my mouth is, so to speak.

The bottom line is,YOU, must have confidence in your rifle.
And what ever rifle you chose YOU must be able to handle it well.

Tony,
Did I miss your most recent hunting report? I look forward to seeing your recent photos from this years trip.

Roscoe

...........AMEN TONY!

Well said Tony.

Hog Killer

Tony, please say something about the bullets you used.


www.kapstadt.de/lemberg
HUNTING ONE HOUR FROM CAPE TOWN

In the 9,3x74R on my first 2 safaris I used 286gr Woodleigh Softs 286gr Nosler Partitions.
[I did shoot a few impala with some 285gr Hawk with the .035jkt. broadside shots].

Buff was shot with a 286gr Woodleigh Soft, one was all it took, and I used 286 Woodleigh Solids on the elephant.

On my last Safari I used 286gr Woodleigh Softs and Solids, I did fire one Nosler Partition.

The Woodleigh Soft and the Nosler give good expansion and good penetration on all the plains game I used them on. I think I like the Woodleigh a little bit better.

In the 450/400 I used 400 gr Woodleigh Softs and Solids.
Solids on elephant and softs on buff and lion and one warthog.

My wife shot her buff with a .408 diameter 400gr. Barnes X. All these bullets did an excellent job.

My 450 No2 has gone on all 3 Safaris. I have used 480 Woodleigh Softs, 500 Swift A Frames on buff, eland, and wildbeest, with perfect results.

I have used 480 Woodleigh Solids, 450 North Fork FP on elephants, and giraffe, along with one NF Cup Point recovered from the Giraffe.

Again all these bullets have performed 100%.

I am perfectly happy with these bullets at Nitro Express double rifle velocities, ie. 2100 to 2200fps.

The 9,3 are doing @2225fps.

NE 450 N°2, how would you rate the 500/416? I was thinking that loaded to say 2250 fps it would be a manageable rifle with perhaps a little more punch than the 450/400 and the potential at a higher velocity loading for even more.

I think the 500/416 is a good Double rifle calibre. I do not know why Merkel and Chapuis do not chamber for it.
Well I know WHY Chapuis does not... but with the avialibility of .416 bullets it would be a natural for the modern double rifle.

I have shot a Krieghoff 500/416 and with a 400 gr at @2350 it does have a little more recoil than most 450/400's.
My 400 Woodleighs go @2200 in my 450/400.

Not really enough more recoil to matter.

I think if the 500/416 is offered in the double rifle of your choice it is a very good one.

I have 300gr loads for my 400 I see no reason why you could not develop 300gr loads in the 500/416 for smaller plains game.

If I bought a 500/416 I would have it scoped with QD mounts for sure.

SO WHERE DOES ONE BUY THE 500/416 AMMUNITION ?

maybe thats why it is not and never will be popular round. it really brings nothing to the party that doesn't exist already.

Tom, as you know, my latest creation is in .450 #2 NE, a cartridge which I've always admired as being among the very best, for a number of reasons. However, I don't agree that the 500/.416 brings nothing new to the table. Many of the old Africa hands thought that there was something almost magical about the way that the .416 Rigby killed, that a 400 grain, 40 calibre bullet at about 2400 fps was just about the perfect recipe. Ballisticaly, the 500/.416 is just a rimmed/flanged .416 Rigby and I've wondered for years why someone didn't do it long ago. It's certainly a more reliable round than the rimless Rigby in a double gun.

Some years back, I became good friends with a South African ex-pat named Tudor Howard-Davies. Tudor had moved his family to Canada and was working with a booking agency here, and that is how I came to know him. He was a lovely man, quiet and unassuming, but had done it all. He was a PH for years, he did control shooting for years, and he was editor of, and a writer for, MAGNUM magazine. I asked him one evening, over sundowners in my den, how many buffalo he had killed. He shrugged his shoulders and said that he wasn't really sure, but reckoned it was a little over 1000. That was on top of more than 1000 elephant, and he had no idea how many lions. Most of those animals were taken with a beat-up .375 H&H bolt gun. However, he added that if he had to do it all over again, he thought that he would buy a .416 Rigby instead. That was enough to sell me on the Rigby and now Kriegoff & Romney's rimmed reincarnation of it. Sadly, Tudor left us far too young, a victim of cancer, and I sure do miss our conversations.

RON, a reputable builder can supply an ejector system for rimless cases like the 416 rigby.

the rimmed case is nice but strictly a hand load proposition as far as i am aware.

the money guys from sci didn't seem awed when this was introduced about 5 years ago. they want to be able to buy ammo..... as you should be able to do if yours gets lost on the airlines. can you -imagine - trying to find the components and die set in africa - ha it will never happen, never.

tudor 's comments prove that there is no reason to obsolete the 375 - he killed thousands of head with it. if the 416 was so great and far superior don't you think he would have traded up to it while working ? i do. anyway have fun making ammo for it, tom

Chapuis does chamber double rifles in .416 Rigby of course. Still, a double rifle without a rimmed cartridge wouldn't push the right emotional buttons for me.

The 500/416 will become a classic double rifle roundm as soon as enough people start using it.
It offer the great penetrating long .416 bullets that are readily available, and all boxed up in a flanged case.

Now I wouldn't call it a "stopper", but you'll hunt more game with a 500/416 than you will with a "stopper".

Just my opine!

quote:

In the 9,3x74R on my first 2 safaris I used 286gr Woodleigh Softs 286gr Nosler Partitions.

Buff was shot with a 286gr Woodleigh Soft, one was all it took, and I used 286 Woodleigh Solids on the elephant.

I am perfectly happy with these bullets at Nitro Express double rifle velocities, ie. 2100 to 2200fps.

The 9,3 are doing @2225fps.

N E 450 No2,

With all the good things you have to say about the caliber, we can reduce it to simple mechanics:

1) We really do not need more velocity
2) We really do not need a faster twist

Just use the best bullet that is available to you.

Chris

Chris
Exactly.

Gunnery! Gunnery! Hit the target! All else is twaddle!- Jack Fisher