OK ... been having problems with seeing well enough to shoot the .470 Search Field Grade I own.

Tried painting the sights as per recommendations from Butch. Did not help enough.

I have a note out to Butch asking about what he recommends for scoping the rifle, but would like your comments as well.

I have used a 1.5-5 Leupold IR and a 2.5x Compact on my .416 Rigby bolt rifle and a 1.5-6 S&B on the 9,3x74R Chapuis DR. All have worked well. I would expect the impulse of the .470 to be more severe than the other rifles.

What scopes are likely to live on a .470?

the 1.5-5 vx111 will handle it with absolutly no problem. it nice and compact thats what id use.

Mike:
Per a conversation with Butch himself, he told me (even after I told him that cost was not an issue) two things about scoping my 450/.400 3" - (1) a Leupold V-III was as good as it gets, and (2) the Talley QD mounts were his choice because they would wear tighter, as opposed to a claw mount potentially wearing loose with enough firings. Hence, I ordered the Talley mounts and sent him a new Leupold V-III for my rifle.

Frank,

Which Leupold did you go with? The 1.5-5x20 one inch scope? I have a 1.5-5x20 on a 30mm tube IR scope that I really like. Is mounted on the Rigby.

What height Talley rings were required?

(That combination is not all that expensive if Butch's price for installing the mount is not too severe. Three years ago it was $525. The limiting factor may be whether or not he can squeeze it into his schedule soon.)

Mike: I went with the 1.5 X 5 V-III. At the Dallas Safari Club Expo, I found a GREAT deal on a Kahles 1 X 6, but it had the 38mm objective; I took it over & let Butch look at it, but he advised against it because he said the 20mm objective (like the 1.5 X 5 V-III) fits lower & better. On the new Searcy, the Talley mounts & rings cost me $495. (installed at time of order). I'm assuming that the ring height will be low ...... FRANK.

Before you go and scope your 470 you really shouls try the NECG/Recknegel "fibre optic" orange inserts in lie of the brass "catapilar" front bead. I put one on my 375H&H to try out and had to go down in diameter because the larger size was just too big, though the same size brass bead was just right.

They really are very much more visible than the brass bead. The smallest size red/orange insert equals the largest size brass bead.

JPK

I ahve a 1.5-5 Leupold that has been used and abused on everything from a 6 lb 300 Wby to my current 505 Gibbs and like a Timex, it takes a licking and keeps on ticking. I wouldn't hesitate to put one on a 470.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
I ahve a 1.5-5 Leupold that has been used and abused on everything from a 6 lb 300 Wby to my current 505 Gibbs and like a Timex, it takes a licking and keeps on ticking. I wouldn't hesitate to put one on a 470.

You might also want to consider the Tally peep sight. That's what Butch setup for me on my 500NE. It will mount in the rear Tally grooves but has to be modified to do so, talk to Butch.

I'm a little (well, okay very) afraid of a scope near my eye in heavy recoiling rifles.

Roi

I would suggest shooting a rifle with a peep sight before you make up your mind.

Dave

If you want to scope your 470NE do so! What's the problem?

If I were going to scope my 470NE double, I'd go the the 1.5-5X30mm Veri-X III with a German No 4 post, and cross hair, with illuminated post tip. This is the set-up I'm installing on my 9.3X74R Merkel double. It makes the rifle far more versetile. Unlike a bolt rifle, the scope on a double is a special use sight, to be installed when needed. When the light begines to fade, the black hide of a buffalo just gets blacker, and so does the reticle,of the scope, or the beads of the irons. So what you have now is a good iron sighted double rifle, with a good scope sight available when needed, and a lighted reticle, when none of the others work.

Mac,

That's the setup I have on the .416 Rigby CZ 550 that is going. Rifle is very nice at dusk for sure ... and I shoot it well from the sticks. The spare scope is a 2.5 Leupold Compact.

My problem with the double is that I am getting horizonal spread on groups that is just way too big at 50 yards from the sticks. Can't really see the front sight very well. Rifle shoots fine from a rest ... but one doesn't hunt from a rest

Searcy is getting back to me on the scope mounts, and I will probably change out the front sight for a fiber optic bar as well.

Am working up an M70 SS Classic in .375 just in case one of the others doesn't shoot or breaks before I leave.

Rick,

May come to that ... Searcy doesn't have time to fool with it right now and says that there is not enough meat on the existing rib to cut the bases for Talley rings, and NECG is suggesting that it will cost way north of $1000 to make it work (and they will only regulate to factory ammo ... ouch!).

Have an NECG fiber optic front sight on order. We'll try that and see what happens.

Options after that are to get very creative or take a second bolt rifle. Fortunately, the M70 .375 is starting to work well.

Rick true that an eotech will solv a lot of cant see sights problems my 458 lot wears one that I got off a ma duce and it just plain works they also mount on a weaver rail and have a quick detach lever available from g.g.andg.

Plus

You have mounting options!

Actually, Mike you did quite well with my rifle using the XS Ghost ring sight, that might be an option if you can find a decent way to mount one.

Rick,

If the 552 weighed less than 11.2 oz I realy might try the duct tape

Yeah I do OK with a Garand too ... but with your rifle the range was only 20 yards or so. At that range I suspect I can use the existing sights just fine

Something about the pucker factor improving your eyesight!!!


Searcy indicates that drilling and tapping the rib and attaching a strip of weaver or picatinny rail should not change the regulation. That increases the available options considerably.

Mike:
Who'll drill & tap the rib ....... and could the rib be altered later with the proper Talley mounting system ???

Frank,


Butch indicates that unfortunately my rifle doesn't have enough metal in the rib to do the Talley mounting.

What you get when you have to buy a used one.

Have you asked Butch if he can remove the old quarter rib, then install a new one and reface it to the mono block, then machine it for scope mounts. Of course, it most like take new ribs and definitely reblued and re-regulated

I'm certain that Butch can do anything needed to rebuild the rifle ... but it would be quite expensive I'm sure and would require time greater than available before the mid August hunt. I have absolutely no doubts of his skills or abilities.

The sense of doing that much work to this piece is in question. If I really need that done, it probably makes more sense for me to sell the rifle to someone that does not need a scope.

I'll try the fiber optic sight that is on the way, and then figure out the next steps.

I, too, agree that Butch could do what is needed to mount Talley rings & bases. Hopefully the fiber-optic sight will solve the problem. With what you have in your rifle, maybe after your hunt you could have the work done and no doubt come out ahead. It's a great rifle ...... but like me, the eyes aren't as great as the rifle's potential. Good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
Mac,

That's the setup I have on the .416 Rigby CZ 550 that is going. Rifle is very nice at dusk for sure ... and I shoot it well from the sticks. The spare scope is a 2.5 Leupold Compact.

My problem with the double is that I am getting horizonal spread on groups that is just way too big at 50 yards from the sticks. Can't really see the front sight very well. Rifle shoots fine from a rest ... but one doesn't hunt from a rest

Searcy is getting back to me on the scope mounts, and I will probably change out the front sight for a fiber optic bar as well.

Am working up an M70 SS Classic in .375 just in case one of the others doesn't shoot or breaks before I leave.

Mstarling, I would predict that the horizonal spread from the sticks is printing on the paper at 50 yds with the shots from the RIGHT barrel, on the RIGHT of the target, and the LEFT barrel shots on the LEFT of the target. If so, the reason is you are most likely resting the rifle dorrectly on the sticks. This is a no, no! A double rifle should never touch anything other than your hands face, and shoulder.

Each barrel always recoils up, and away from the other barrel, but if the loads are correct, the group on the paper will print a good composite group, as long as nothing touche the rifle other than your body. When you rest the double rifle in the crotch of sticks, it maganifies the jump away from the other barrel, hence the horizonal spread. Place you hand on the forestock as if you were shooting off hand, with you hand between the rifle and the sticks. I think you will find the rifle will shoot the same as it does when you shoot from the bench!

Remember, the key is the rifle touches nothing but your hands, face , and shoulder!

Mac,

Sadly, nothing is touching the rifle except me. That lesson I learned very early on at the cost of just a few shells. Doesn't, of course, mean I've learned what I need to yet ... otherwise I'd not be having any problems at all.

I suppose it could be the invisable sights, combined with a little flenching. If so, then the scope should take care of matters!

Hello,
Over the years have had the privilege of visiting some of the famous double rifle/shotgun makers around the world and have had the topic of optics on such firearms discussed and most responses is it is a NO NO.
Yes it is done, some swear by such sight arrangements, but rest assured adding a scope to a double rifle will in no way make you a better marksman.
Typical range w/ such a sporting rifle will be well under 100 yards and quality set of "bold to the eye..." front bead/blade and shallow v w/ gold/platinum line leading to bottom edge of the that V would be more than suffecient for such shooting ranges and occasions.
Now, missing element to all of this is practice and skill with the rifle. Believe it is well known that double rifles are not match grade rifles nor used for "distance shots..." and general application is to drop/stop dangerous game. Can you strike/hit a 9" pie plate at 100 yards off hand 5 shots in a row with no sticks or artificial support with your double rifle or any other rifle for that matter.?? If not, suggest you practice more prior to going on a dangerous game hunt.
I know that is almost unheard of these days, but scopes, sticks, double rifles, hyper velocity, etc. will in no way make you a better marksman, but only practice of the proper shooting techniques. Scopes/optics have their place, but do not believe it is on double rifle. Like the man said, if you want one, go for it, but it is a novelty.

Driver,

Point well taken.

I shoot .338 WM, .375 H&H and .416 Rigby scoped bolt rifles and a 9,3x74R scoped double rifle just fine thank you.

Oh no, here we go again. Another Non Believer.

I have killed a lot of game with a scoped 9,3x74R.
Many of the shots, because of the distance [to 300 yards], the light conditions, having to thread the shot around brush trees etc, and when shooting "herd" animals, turkeys, deer, pigs, etc. [identifying the correct animal to shoot], could not have been made ithout the scope.

A scope on a double rifle gives you the same benefits as a scope on a bolt rifle.

I have found my scoped 9,3 x74R so useful that I am having my 450/400 scoped as I type.

I have found a scoped double to be a great all round hunting rifle.

With a scope in QD mounts a double rifle cannot be beat for any game taken out to 250 or even 300 yards if you have good regulating loads.

From 150 yards and in no other hunting rifle is as good IMHO.

"I'm a believer...." sounds like the title for a song! Seriously though, as I stated there are those who like optics/scopes on everything they shoot, but still maintain that the fellow commenting that his shots were straying and he could not see well w/open sights will not find his answer with a scope on his double rifle. It is not the end all for shooting and the fact that you can shoot yours at longer ranges, is a good thing. Might add that most are taught not to use the scope on a rifle for spotting game for pointing at an unknown target with a loaded firearm could lead to the accidental shooting we so much dread. Binoculars are a great asset to hunting whatever. Again, if you do well with your scope rifles, bolt, double, etc., outstanding. Carry on!

Let me clarify. I do not nor do I recommend using the scope in place of binos for spotting game. However when you have picked out an animal in a Herd a scope will help you shoot the right one.
Example turkeys and pigs always seem to be moving around. SA scope helps you see the one with the biggest beard and pick out a male pig from a female pig. A scope does not make you shoot any better, it helps you AIM better.... so you HIT better.

I have killed as much, maybe more game with my 9,3 double vs open sights, however many of the shots I have made I cpoild not have made with open sights, And I am a pretty good iron sight shooter.

Hello,
Could not agree with you more. Should have pointed out that my thinking about optics on a double rifle was more in line with the big bores and not a medium bore as you have described. Have not hunted game in Africa, travelled quite a bit there, but have hunted in Alaska many times, lived there, and used 375 H&H for about everything and in the bush/brush/alders,etc. some 10-25 yards about all the maneuvering room you had, scope would have been pretty much useless in such application. Now, many use them, no question, just not my first preference.

quote:

Originally posted by mstarling:
Frank,


Butch indicates that unfortunately my rifle doesn't have enough metal in the rib to do the Talley mounting.

What you get when you have to buy a used one.

I would be sure you see a photo of a double with the Talley mounts. Most of the socope mounts I have seen on doubles require some type of offset on the rear mount to provide eye relief. I think the Talley system is one of the best for bolt rifles but I am not sure if I would want one on a double. A pivot or claw may be the best option and would not require a new rib. Just food for thought.