I am certainly not an expert on double rifles by any means....but I try to keep up with the times on this forum because I plan to join the club of double owners as soon as my pocket book allows me to.

At the recent NRA Annual Meeting, I was able to spend some time speaking with the Krieghoff rep...and fondle the new ejector gun they are offering now.

I'm not sure if it is a result of the addition of ejectors to their rifles....but the prices on these guns seem to have increased quite a bit from what I remember. The gentleman told me the "base model" Big Five Classic starts at $16,000. If you want the upgraded package (includes better wood and slightly more engraving) then you can add $2,500 to that.

So now you're looking at $18,500 for a decent looking K-gun. Is this not substantially higher than they have been in recent history? Surely it's not just because they have ejectors now?

You guys' input would be appreciated.

With Krieghoff at those prices, I will likely be considering a Searcy Field Grade or Merkel for my first double.

At those prices you could be looking at VC or Heym.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
At those prices you could be looking at VC or Heym.

But why step down in quality and features?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
At those prices you could be looking at VC or Heym.

But why step down in quality and features?

Ah ha! Funny man! Funny funny man!!

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
At those prices you could be looking at VC or Heym.

You're absolutely right....

Ideally, however, I'd like to stay in the $10k-$15k range.

You can do a VC inside of that.

Krieghoffs have not been seen in quantity in the US for years; this price increase will not improve sales. I like them, (and I have one) for 10-12K, but definitely not for 16-18. There are better options as mentioned above.

I, too, have a Krieghoff .500, but I sure would not pay $16-$18,000. for one. For that money, I'd go for the Heym.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
At those prices you could be looking at VC or Heym.

But why step down in quality and features?

Mike, are you trying to drive Todd to drink.

Todd, I figure the price of my used 500/.416 just went up to about ten grand but for you, $7,500 with dies and a lifetime supply of brass.

I agree with most of what has been said above. I would not pay $16,000 for a K-gun. K-guns are a great working firearm but I think they are just pricing themselves right out of the market. Guys, I am telling ya, think Chapuis. Great gun at a most reasonable price but I sure don't know how much longer that will last.

Eland Slayer, can you still buy an extractor gun for around $12,500 or will the extractor gun be discontinued?

Ask yourself what do you want to pay for.A rifle that retains its value because there exists a bunch of nostalgic folks,a rifle that looks good like a piece of jewelery,or a rifle that is all there when you ask of it to get a job done.If you want a rifle to get the job done above all,seek a builder who is a hardened shooter and buy the rifle from him.You can bet that he wont charge you an arm and a leg for this.

I just got off the phone with the Krieghoff people in Ottsville, PA. Here's the scoop. They are indeed coming out with an ejector gun. However, the extractor gun will be continued and the ejector gun will be a $2,495 upgrade. I think most new K-guns sell in the $12,000-$12,500 price range. That gun will still be available. If you want ejectors, add $2,500.

Okay, listen up boys and girls. Watch the used market. Guys who have extractor guns will be trading up to ejector guns and you might be able to make a very good deal on a used K-gun if you prefer extractors as I do.

Good point; I have no use for ejectors and will keep my extractor DRs.

A few years ago I sat down with the folks at the Krieghoff booth at SCI and priced out a .450/400 with a few extra bells & whistles. I do not exactly recall what they were but were at least scope ready, extra folding rear sight blades, custom wood work to have the oval cheek piece w/shadow line. And it ran around $17-18K. I do like the K gun but am glad I held out for a VC in the same price range that will be quite a beauty, with far more bells and whistles! She arrives in October, just in time for a little bit of bear season. Been waiting for 6 years...

Dave,

I'm still interested in your K-Gun, especially for that price. As we've discussed previously, I like the caliber as well. We'll see!

But that $2,495 upgrade for ejectors is absurd. We've been down that road before with this discussion where the Heym guys were charging something on the same order. VC's ejector vs extractor price difference when I was specing out my rifle was a grand total of $325 difference. That's one of the reasons for choosing the VC. CCH was about the same. For the features you get on the VC, it's really hard to beat the prices. IIRC, intercepting sears was something on the order of $1,250. These may be off a little, but not much. Ken can give you specifics.

Again, IIRC, for the same price of the Heym PH which is very blandly finished, the VC can be had with full engraving, intercepting sears, bolted safety, leather recoil pad, CCH, night sight, gold accents and a few others. In other words, you can get all the same features of the Heym in the VC at the same price, but in a gun that is fully dressed.

The "bells and whistles" are where the German gun makers stumble in knowing the US market. They assume that what we like about the basic heart of their guns will make us want to pimp it out and this value added marketing adds to their profit. In the US we need value for the buck we spend. The hunters here are blue collar and white collar but most would rather have two or more of a rifle than one real tricked one. German engineering is incredible but with yearly price increases you cannot loose site of how you are perceived in a market place. You should never get caught valuing your product higher than what the consumers in your market do. Your competitors gain market by knowing your weekness.

Get a nice vintage English gun and you can always sell it for what you paid......

Todd, Blaserguy and others are correct; but I think European shooters (and gunmakers as well) (no offense meant for our Continental friends) have a different mindset when it comes to rifles, partially, if not mostly, driven by their oppressive governmental regulations. Namely, they are severely limited in the numbers of firearms they can own, so they tend to place their entire budget into one or two guns; cost is not a factor. So the manufacturers take advantage of that. American shooters come from all classes of society from the bottom to the top, and most real enthusiasts own several. They/we do not want to spend our entire disposable recreational income on one gun, preferring rather, to have another one. Of course, the well heeled can have it both ways, but most of us are not in that category. In Europe, they can only have it one way so they are not averse to spending more on a home grown product than perhaps it is worth to a US market. Most of their products are not aimed at a mass US market, like we like. They seem not to be concerned about increasing sales or looking for efficiencies; just raise the price to make up for any financial shortfalls. Just my take on economics. Having said all that, in France, they "get" it somewhat better, in my experience.

I view a new k gun as overpriced and a used k gun as one of the great values in double rifles. I picked up a 470 k gun with $1000 in ammo for $7000. At that price, I can really use it and not cringe every time I nick or scratch it. And, it shoots every bullet I put in it into the same ragged hole at 50 yards.

Who would have thought, Will, bolt trash from way back, comes over to the enlightened side. Who says that those boys from Alabama cannot be taught new tricks?