The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Anyone have info on .500/.450 2 3/4" No 1 BP Express?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Above says it all. I have bought a Thomas Turner, Jones underlever, hammer double in this calibre, and from the chamber casts its the No 1 Express 2 3/4". Bore slugs to 458, 7 grooves. I have bought Bertram cases, and am looking for anyone who has loaded this round to get info. I would particularly like to find a suitable mold for paper patch bullets., and suitable dies. Any ideas? Any experience of this round? | ||
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ChrisPer, I have a Westley Richards hammerless, ejector double rifle chambered for the 500/450#1 Express, in it's origenal fitted case, that was sold to an unknown buyer, out of the London store in 1892. The rifle has Metford round rifleing. This rifleing looks to the unschooled like worn out ratchet rifleing, but was cut that way when new! I bought the rifle cheaply, because the dealer thought it was worn out! It shoots fine. The 500/450#1 express was factory loaded with 110 grs of black powder, with a 270 gr bullet, or a 310 gr bullet. The duplex load I use in my rifle is 27.5 grs 4759 on the primer, and 82.5 grs Goex black powder,on top of the smokeless to the bullet! if there is any airspace, a pinch of Dacron fiber fill so that it is slightly compressed by the bullet's seating, so the smokeless doesnt migrate. This shoots fine in my rifle, but you need to work up to a load for your rifle, starting a little lower!  I use black powder/smokeless duplex loads useing the smokeless 4759 up to 25% of the full black powder load, and 75% black powder. I use both paper patched lead, or 300gr/350gr hornady HP/rn jacketed bullets respectively. If you have, or can get a copy of Graeme Wright's book SHOOTING THE BRITISH DOUBLE RIFLE he offers a lot of space for duplex loads for black powder double rifles. Good luck, and good hunting! Congratulations on your find!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I've not loaded the #1 express, my T. Turner is the 3 1/4" magnum that used 140 grains of powder and a 320 to 360 grain bullet. The 500/450 #1 BPE was factory loaded with 110 grains of black powder, most likely Curtis & Harvey #6, and either a 270 grain copper tubed lead bullet at 1900 fps or a 310 grain solid lead bullet at 1825 fps. Swiss #1 1/2f black comes closest to the old black powders for strength. If you want to load smokless and 4198 powder is available, 'per Graeme Wright AR2207 is the same as H4198', you would use 40% by weight of the original black powder load or 44 grains, about 10 grains of dacron filler and the appropriate bullet. Remember to start low and work up to regulation. As for a mould for paper patch bullets, if you have access to a lathe they are actually quite easy to make. Ross Seyfried wrote an article several years ago for either Rifle or Handloader Magazine called "The Magic Mould" that shows one he made, it is a copy of an old Lyman design. If you would like to try and make a mould I would be happy to e-mail pictures of the one I made. As for dies surly there is someone in Australia that can make a set for you, again if you have access to a lathe dies can be made. Perhaps someone else will know who to contact for a mould or dies. Good luck | |||
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Thanks for the information gentlemen! MacD37, your rifle sounds like a stunning piece of work. Thanks for that info, it is particularly unusual how light a bullet this round used and I imagine trying to use heavy ones would significantly increase pressure and recoil. I have not previously encountered duplex loads, but will study Graeme Wright's book as soon as it is available. A NitroExpress.com member has helped me with his experience for the smaller .500/.450 No 1 Carbine using a Nitro for Black load of AR2207 - I have some of this powder, so will give it a try as well as a straight black powder load. I have the offer of access to a lathe, and was considering making a mould. My idea was to use a factory mold for something smaller as a starting point to avoid having to set up registration pins and handle slots. I would very much appreciate seeing the pictures of yours, elk hunter. Dies for this calibre are available from RCBS, and Huntingtons gave excellent service when I previously got special order dies. | |||
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And why has this little jewel never made it to Brady? ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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Chrisper, I don't have a photo hosting account so all I can do is send them via e-mail straight to you. Rather than tie up this thread with a long description on how to make a mould send me a PM with your e-mail address and I will send pictures and describe how I make them. Elk Hunter | |||
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ROSCOE, I'll bring it next time just for you!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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Thank you kind fellow! I look forward to making some smoke! R ****************************************************************** R. Lee Ermey: "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." ****************************************************************** We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't, Which purportedly covers at least ten million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from it, and signed by a President, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect, by a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke!!!!! 'What the hell could possibly go wrong?' | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Double Rifles Anyone have info on .500/.450 2 3/4" No 1 BP Express?
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