http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/community/gun...5587_chsp450_leh.jsp


Anybody else see this gun? It's sure the poor relation to the double rifle. I wonder if this is the unusual bolt actioned NE that Craig
Boddington referred to in one of his books or articles. It reminds me of my son's starter deer rifle, a Savage 340 bolt 30-30.

Bob

Well... it IS different.

I think it is different enough that I just bought it. It will go well with my Cogswell 450-400 3 1/4 NE double rifle

Congratulations Mike. I live in Azle and work in Fort Worth. I would like to hook up with you and get a look at that gun in person. It does look quite unusual.

Crazyhorseconsulting, send me your phone at mdavis54@flash.net

Mike

Mike, good deal! I think we met at a Houston gun show ( I remember cuz you have the same name as my brother in law). what an interesting pairing you've got. Bob

Hi Bob, Yes, I remember you! I'll be in Germany during the next Houston show but Maybe I'll see you at the next one.
Mike

The Certus rifle was a design of Edgar Harrison and the patent was March 1900. They were initally made in 450-400 3 1/4 inch NE and 450 NE. Just got off the phone with Cogswell and Harrison and was informed that my gun was completed November 24, 1900. It may be one of the earliest built. They have one in the process of restoration in 450 NE. These two are the only ones I have been able to find for sale.
I have ordered a factory letter and the gun should arrive next week.

I was said to get to the end and see you bought this.. It would have looked nice to my Cogswell and Harrison double also... that's a good price for that gun.. I would have bought it also..

I handled that C&H and it sure was a weird rig. Tempting price, but I could not see myself hunting with it.

Just picked up the Certus from my local Cabelas. It is nicer than the photos. Next step - cerosafe to determine bore diameter. My double is .411 so I hope this one is also. The silver oval on the right side of the stock is engraved with "SGS" so I hope they are the initials of the original owner. I'll find out when the factory letter arrives.

Enjoy the new addition!

Mike
I know you like the obscure...
But you gone and done it now.

That has got to be a fun hunting rifle.
Rest assured that is one bolt rifle that will be allowed on the next DRSS hunt for sure.

Mike:

The .450/.400 Certus rifles were chambered for the .450/.400 Certus cartridge. Fleming has it listed separately from the .450/.400 3 1/4" NE and gives a load of 56 grains Cordite as opposed to the usual 60 grains. If you ever find any of the original ammo to go with it, you'll have done something. It's rare. The standard bullet diameter of the .450/.400 3 1/4" NE was .408". I don't know what the standard was for the Certus.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

400 Nitro Express: The markings on the rifle show 60 gr. cordite and 400 gr. bullet. This is the same as on my double rifle. I have found some "certus" headstamped ammo from a collector.
My double rifle is .411 bore and tonight I will slug the bore and hope this is .411 also.

Tony: I prefer "RARE" to obsucre. It has even been called "weird". You know I can't help myself!

Mike

Mike:

Yes, that's what I expected. The Brits would have proved it for the "standard" .400 load. Similar to the .350 No. 2/.400/.350 loadings. The .350 No. 2s used a high vel 225 grain load, but were proved for the 310 grain .400/.350 load, since they used the same case. Certainly not critical in a single barrel rifle though.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Mike
That rifle is beyond RARE, it is OBSCURE.
Which makes it all the more "neat".
I cannot wait to shoot it.

PS: OBSCURE is not a bad thing.

Mike, when you get your ammo/bore size sorted out. You need to bring it down here to one of the "Bubba" shoots. Seeing as it is a bolt gun and welcomed here Of course you SxS is very welcomed also. Big bore, is the key word for a "Bubba" shoot.

Hog Killer

Hog Killer,
Let me know when and where and I'll try to be there.

Mike

Congratulations, Mike! A fine addition to the collection!

Well, it looks like it is .408. Does anyone have a few to try?

I have some Mike. Send me you snail mail addy and I will drop some in the mail to you!

Thanks Rusty. Email sent with addy.

Mike

I looked this rifle over several times. Really "OBSCURE", rare and unique. Good purchase in my book.

.

Mike,

Congratulations. The Certii were fine rifles and beauty is in the beholder's eye - I think you got a Keira Knightley rifle with this one.

Hat's off to you on this purchase.

Mike Davis, just wondering how the certus shoots?
I'm the guy that sold it to you.

barclay,
I'm waiting for my stock man to complete restoration on the wood. It was still cracked on the bottom slightly and I felt that it might break if fired. I have the ammo made and I took advise from 400 Nitro Express and made some reduced loads to replicate the "Certus" loading.
It should shoot well. When I slugged the bore I found that it has metford rifling! I'm still waiting on the letter from Cogswell and Harrison. The history should be interesting.

Mike

Hi All - Yep first post - saw this and was amazed! Very interesting.

For anyone interested:

There is one of those rifles coming up for auction at Greg Martin Auctions in SF in June - I do not know the date of that sale, but I suppose you can find the date on thier web-site.

Saw it on a visit there recently.

It is in .450 Nitro (not the .400) - sorry I do not have more information.

The letter from Cogswell and Harrison has arrived. Unfortunately the original owner is unknown. It was delivered to Chas. Osborne & Co. for delivery to the unknown owner. It is listed as a G. Model 16 Certus. The barrel was round (without a rib) and was sighted for 200 to 1000 yards. Finished weight was 7 pounds 8 ounces. It was furnished with a 3 year warranty and original cost was eighteen guineas. It was built for a load of 60 gr. cordite and 400 gr. bullet.
The stock has a silver oval plate on the right side with the initials "SGS". When the forend screw and the tang screw are removed, the barrel will turn 90 degrees and slide out of the receiver. The barrel has "locking lugs" like the bolt head! It is reasonable to assume that a replacement barrel could be manufactured for 450 nitro express and therefore have a multi caliber rifle system. The rear sight is a ladder type and is the earliest version produced. I will post more as I shoot it.

Mike

Mike, I found an interesting Certus 12 bore just thought you would be interested.certus

barclay - Thanks for the link. It is interesting but a bit pricy for a 12 bore single shot. I'm going to bid on a 450 NE that is being auctioned in San Francisco this month. My gun is with my stock man right now and I hope to have it back soon to shoot!

Mike

Just got back from the range I found out how the weight of my double absorbs recoil! The Certus weighs 7 pound 8 ounces and the recoil is NOTICABLE. The double weighs 11 pounds and is a pleasure. The front sight on the Certus had been replaced and I assumed that since the rifle had a special long range rear sight, someone had installed a higher front sight to get it in at about 100 yds. I finally found that if I elevated the rear sight to "600" yards it was on at 50 yards. It finally grouped a little over 1 inch at 50 so I'm satisfied.
After all the time with the Certus, I took a break and zeroed the Whitworth 458- last 5 shots in one large hole 1 inch high from dead center! I am pleased

Mike

I'm glad you like it.
Great thing is you can bowl them over at 50yds and tell everyone you got them at 600yds.

Barclay