I have some really nice bolt rifles. However, bolts guns just don't hold my interest anymore. As soon as I get one shooting well, I kinda lose interest in them. However, I really enjoy shooting my doubles. Working up a regulation load is great fun. Lately, I have been looking at a really nice Chapuis O/U in 8X57JRS. However, now that it seems that .375 flanged brass is becoming more available, I have been thinking some about calling Dale and ordering up a Chapuis S/S in that caliber. If I did, I would have it regulated with Kynoch ammunition. Why?...tradition, of course. I don't think the Kynoch ammo is very hot so it probably won't give me much more than my little Chapuis 9,3X74R which is running right at 2250 fps with a 286 grain bullet. What do you think, is the flanged .375 going to give me anything more than I already have with my 9,3X74R?

Dave, as you know I have used a 9,3x74R double quite a bit.

So my answer would be, No you will not gain anything in killing power by going to a 375 Flanged, or even a 375 H&H for that matter, that you would notice in the field.
IMHO of course.

The rifle will be heavier, and on a bigger frame as opposed to your Chapuis.

The above being said, I think the 375 Flanged would also be a great hunting cartridge.
If more American companies, especially Hornady, woyld load factory ammo in the 375 Flanged, I think a lot of them would be sold.

Its main advantage, is that as far as I know it is legal for the Big 5 in any African country where any of the Big 5 is currently being hunted.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Dave, as you know I have used a 9,3x74R double quite a bit.

So my answer would be, No you will not gain anything in killing power by going to a 375 Flanged, or even a 375 H&H for that matter, that you would notice in the field.
IMHO of course.

The rifle will be heavier, and on a bigger frame as opposed to your Chapuis.

The above being said, I think the 375 Flanged would also be a great hunting cartridge.
If more American companies, especially Hornady, woyld load factory ammo in the 375 Flanged, I think a lot of them would be sold.

Its main advantage, is that as far as I know it is legal for the Big 5 in any African country where any of the Big 5 is currently being hunted.

+1 but I prefer the 375Fl "just because"

Doc:

What are you using for .375 flanged brass? Bertram? Is it any good. I have never used Bertram brass but I know some guys complain about it.

Dave,

I have never had a problem with Bertram brass in my 600 or any other rifle in which I have used it. I know others have voiced concerns but I havent had any problems myself.

In the 375Flanged I bought and have been using Norma brass - I bought a bunch I think it was from Huntingtons - I'll check tonight when I get home.

Recently I bought another 100 pieces (maybe more, I don't remember at the moment) from Jamisons before they went out of business. I haven't used their 375Fl brass but their 600OK and 585AHR is top notch so I suspect this will be as well.

I pointed out in an earlier post Nosler is going to have loaded .375 flanged ammo. Every one started talking about Norma that’s a different company. Nosler will have a complete line of NE calibers. The point is it should be an exultant source for brass. Nosler brass comes already prepped for loading.
Bill

If I were to purchase a classic 375F then I would be looking at a second hand classic English double.
Although it would not give an advantage over the 9.3mm. It would enhance the enjoyment by hunting with a "Classic" masterpiece.

Bill,
That's great about Nosler brass and cartridges - and I'll probably get some when it becomes available.
Norma came up, as far as my own postings, because it is available now in both loaded rounds and unloaded brass, both nickel and plain Jane and has a good reputation.
Nothing wrong with the Nosler stuff, its just not here yet.

Almost all my practice ammo is in brass cases.

my carry ammo...well the woodleigh solids are in Nickeled cases and the Swift A frames in Brass.

I know two parks officers who managed to grab the wrong ammo in the dark... Case colour helps.

I have always colour coded my primers and wear softs and solids on oposite sides of my belt but even so...and yes, the nickeled cases do come out of a dirty gun mightly slickly- fortunately I don't many :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Almost all my practice ammo is in brass cases.

my carry ammo...well the woodleigh solids are in Nickeled cases and the Swift A frames in Brass.

I know two parks officers who managed to grab the wrong ammo in the dark... Case colour helps.

I have always colour coded my primers and wear softs and solids on oposite sides of my belt but even so...and yes, the nickeled cases do come out of a dirty gun mightly slickly- fortunately I don't many :-)

Sam Rose (srose here on AR) suggested loading solids in nickel-plated and softs in regular brass for the same reason - easy to distinguish between the two in less optimal conditions.

I have done just that since.

I have a Chapuis in 9.3x74r and a Heym in a 375 flanged. Not sure why but I like the 375 a lot more. Someone in a different thread asked me to weigh them both and much to my surprise the Heym was a few ounces heavier. It points and feels so much more active.

For brass I have been using Jamison exclusively and ordered 300 more pieces before they closed doors a couple of months ago. It has been good brass.

As far as ballistics are concerned I am with Tony on this and don't think you will be able to tell any difference.

I just got a couple of weeks ago some of Michael’s #13 solids and cups that I am going to try out as soon as the weather has a break here and there is some sunlight so my chorno will work correctly.

Mac

For the experts here,

Would a .375 Flanged have the same basic ballistics as the .375 Mag? Meaning, would it still shoot as flat and be as accurate out to say, 200 yards?? I would think that a .375 Flanged double would be a great go-to rifle for hunting more than just in Africa.

I may be purchasing (for an extremely reasonable price) a classic Greener .450NE that, horror of horrors, was drilled out to a 20ga shotgun many years ago because of the UK gun laws My thought was to re barrel it to a 450/400 but it might be more usefull as a flanged .375. Then it could be used for stag hunting, boar hunting, etc. here which you simpl could not do with a 450!

Thoughts?

quote:

Originally posted by BwanaCole:
For the experts here,

Would a .375 Flanged have the same basic ballistics as the .375 Mag? Meaning, would it still shoot as flat and be as accurate out to say, 200 yards?? I would think that a .375 Flanged double would be a great go-to rifle for hunting more than just in Africa.

I may be purchasing (for an extremely reasonable price) a classic Greener .450NE that, horror of horrors, was drilled out to a 20ga shotgun many years ago because of the UK gun laws My thought was to re barrel it to a 450/400 but it might be more usefull as a flanged .375. Then it could be used for stag hunting, boar hunting, etc. here which you simpl could not do with a 450!

Thoughts?

The standard loading for the 375 flanged and a 300 grain bullet was I believe about 2300 fps. I am running mine about 2425. I believe that Norma factory is about that same speed.


450 NE drilled out to a 20ga? Would you not need a lot more wall thickness than is normal on a 450 to drill to a 20ga?

I would think with a 450NE action on your greener you would miss the finer qualities of having a 375/9.3x74 rifle because of the action size. I would do the 450/400 or stay with the 450-470 class rifle.

Bwannacole, I suggest that you check into the cost to rebarrel before you pull the trigger on this deal. It's not going to be cheap by any means.

IMO, the .375 Flanged is one of the greats in double rifles..I would much prefer it for shooting buffalo or Lion than the 9.3x74R, In a Searcy it approches the .375 H&H as as I tend to load my .375 H&H...I am a 9.3x62 fan, so the 9.3x74 rates high in my books, but the 9.3x62 is no .375 H&H and the 9.3x74R is not 375 flanged.

All that said I really prefer the 450-400-3" to all double rifle calibers..It may not be the most powerfull or the best choice but it has served me to perfection on buffalo, Lion and elepohant.

BTW, doesn't Hornady make .375 Flanged brass and loaded ammo??? I sure wouldn't use Bertram.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
BTW, doesn't Hornady make .375 Flanged brass and loaded ammo??? I sure wouldn't use Bertram.

I don't believe so, but I could be wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
BTW, doesn't Hornady make .375 Flanged brass and loaded ammo???

No, or at least not yet ...

I have a Searcy in 375 FL mag. Bought it after a gent shot it about 20 times and his buddies backed out of their African trip. Gent must have been a midget (sorry aka "little person") as it had a 13.25" LOP. I had Butch restock it to my correct LOP and still saved a bunch. It has QD mounts and I put a little 1.5x5 Loopie on it. Awesome gun and kicks less than that 500/416, Dave, by a LOT.

One double I couldn't part with because it actually was "custom" made for me.
I use Jamison brass and their stuff is great.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
BTW, doesn't Hornady make .375 Flanged brass and loaded ammo???

No, and this is one of the biggest problems with the flanged .375. Jamison is out of business. Horneber is out of business. Norma makes brass if you can find it. Bertram makes brass but it is expensive and if Nosler does make it, it will equally expensive.

Now, here is the question. You will find plenty of used .375 H&Hs for sale but not many flanged .375s. When all the gun makers started chambering the belted .375 H&H in doubles, the flanged version almost disappeared. The belted version must work because everybody chambers for it. Is there any reason not to buy a double in a belted .375 H&H and just forget the hassle of trying to find brass? Another question for you guys who have more experience than I. Would it make any difference in reliability if you use a belted cartridge in and extractor gun rather than an ejector gun?

Ah c'mon Gary, you know that 500/416 is a pussycat! Shot 20 rounds this week. That gun has fantastic triggers and boy-oh-boy, does it shoot

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:
I have a Chapuis in 9.3x74r and a Heym in a 375 flanged. Not sure why but I like the 375 a lot more. Someone in a different thread asked me to weigh them both and much to my surprise the Heym was a few ounces heavier.

Mac

Mac, which model Heym do you have and what does it weigh?

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush:

No, and this is one of the biggest problems with the flanged .375. Jamison is out of business. Horneber is out of business. Norma makes brass if you can find it. Bertram makes brass but it is expensive and if Nosler does make it, it will equally expensive.

Damn - when did that happen?

Dave, you are right...that K-gun has nice triggers and was a shooter. It IS a nice double rifle round....Taylor thought it would be a good chambering WAY back then.

Gary
DRSS
NRA Lifer
SCI
DSC

I just looked at Horneber's website and didn't see anyhting about this. Hmmmm

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
I just looked at Horneber's website and didn't see anyhting about this. Hmmmm

I hope not, I have a contract with Dieter for 2000 pieces of brass, should be run any day now if not done already?

Michael

If you are going to buy a nice double buy it for the flanged .375, game won´t know the difference and you KNOW it will eject ! Current Norma flanged ammo seems to run about 2300 fps with the 300 grain, best, Mike

Mike:

If Norma ammo runs at 2300, then there truly is little difference between the .375 flanged and the 9,3X74R. My little chapuis shoots a 286 grain bullet at around 2250 fps. However, CCMDoc has a flanged .375 that regulates around 2500 fps.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
I just looked at Horneber's website and didn't see anyhting about this. Hmmmm

I hope not, I have a contract with Dieter for 2000 pieces of brass, should be run any day now if not done already?

Michael

Michael:

Let me know how you make out. I understand that Horneber has not delivered any brass for six months or more. Have you had any contact with Horneber recently?

Just talked to Mitch at Hornedy. I asked him if Hornady had any plans to make .375 flanged ammo and brass. He said they "were thinking about it" since it's the last of the double rifle cartridges they would make and they had gotten a number of requests for the flanged .375. However, there were no firm plans right now right now and it will not be in 2013. He also said it is somewhat difficult since it apparently is not just simply a .375 H&H with a rim and without the belt. It apparently has some different dimensions.

[/QUOTE]

Mac, which model Heym do you have and what does it weigh?[/QUOTE]

88B safari. Just looked back for my post on the subject. Weight is 8lb 4 oz. This is 6 oz. heavier than my 9.3 Chapuis.

quote:

Michael:

Let me know how you make out. I understand that Horneber has not delivered any brass for six months or more. Have you had any contact with Horneber recently?

Contact with Dieter?


That is funny! I have been dealing with Dieter since August 2010. Our total emails from Dieter for that entire time is 13. If I send Dieter an email today--then One Sunday Morning, SOMETIME in the future I will hear back from him. Now that SOMETIME--Might be the first Sunday that comes along, or it could be 3-4 Sundays down the road! But rest assured, it will be on a Sunday Morning--My Time.

So one crosses fingers, says a little prayer, and hope to god the message gets there, and then it's understood!

So that is how us little guys have to work to get head stamped brass! Oh, Hornady would love to do brass for you, just cough up enough money to do 100'000 pieces at a time. It's that simple.

Michael

Michael, a 375???? I KNEW you wore women's underwear!!!!! :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Michael, a 375???? I KNEW you wore women's underwear!!!!! :-)

Look here, have a little story for you!

Mercedes last year was in a tiny bit of a hard spot at school one day. So the teacher asked if she wanted to go to the principles office? Mercedes responded with this "I'd Rather Be In Hell"! OK................... Now for the life of me, I can't imagine where that child would pick up a line like that??????


But, with that in mind, NO I am not having NO 375 brass of ANY SORT made---I am having Dieter work on a proper Rat caliber--9.3 B&M and then a proper caliber the 475 B&M. Head Stamped brass for both.

375? No Man--I'd Just Soon Be in Hell! No 375 anything here! Not even my own 375 B&M. Don't own one, don't want one! Have no use for one.



But now I do like womens underwear however!

LOL ! You're the original Big Bore Whore!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Michael, a 375???? I KNEW you wore women's underwear!!!!! :-)

Look here, have a little story for you!

Mercedes last year was in a tiny bit of a hard spot at school one day. So the teacher asked if she wanted to go to the principles office? Mercedes responded with this "I'd Rather Be In Hell"! OK................... Now for the life of me, I can't imagine where that child would pick up a line like that??????


But, with that in mind, NO I am not having NO 375 brass of ANY SORT made---I am having Dieter work on a proper Rat caliber--9.3 B&M and then a proper caliber the 475 B&M. Head Stamped brass for both.

375? No Man--I'd Just Soon Be in Hell! No 375 anything here! Not even my own 375 B&M. Don't own one, don't want one! Have no use for one.



But now I do like womens underwear however!

Hi Michael - good to meet you at DSC!! Yes you are quite correct 375cal is a medium bore only!!

Cheers
Matt

Matt, you're right...it's Medium-sized. Just like Michael's thong.

quote:

Hi Michael - good to meet you at DSC!! Yes you are quite correct 375cal is a medium bore only!! Smiler

Cheers
Matt

RAT CALIBER!!!! Good for Rats, squirrels and rabbits if you use the right bullet!



Was good to meet you as well Matt! Now we can argue in person and you know who you are up against on the use or no use for Solids! And you know where I am on that! HEH HEH........

A good Solid will save your bacon, and your money!

quote:

LOL ! You're the original Big Bore Whore!

Why Thank You Biebs! I can't recall when someone said something so nice to me! I concur!

HEH.
M

I am afraid it appears I have hi-jacked this thread--My apologies, I was not paying attention!

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Matt, you're right...it's Medium-sized. Just like Michael's thong.

Good God Biebs

WHY do you know this ...

WHY did you have to share this ...

WAY too much information.......

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Matt, you're right...it's Medium-sized. Just like Michael's thong.

Biebs, you hack into my computer and get those photos of me in the bullets almost naked?




Now I swear, Dave is going to kick us off his serious thread with this Hi Jack! Sorry Dave.
You know how these guys are!

M